Some families consider arguments to be ‘discussions’. Mine was definitely among them. As the youngest of four brothers it was a hassle for me to even get a word in at the dinner table. Everyone had an opinion… and damn it, they were all wrong! Especially when it came to cars.
My Dad wanted to replace his 1987 Lincoln Continental which back then had reached the ‘100k trade-in’ point. I told him that the car had plenty of life left. But the more I talked, the more I realized that no form of reason would ever penetrate his viewpoint.
“Dad, you can drive that Lincoln for another 100k miles. Heck you don’t even go past 2000 rpm’s when you’re driving that thing.”
Which was true. I don’t think any of my father’s cars ever saw a hard rev in their lifetime. My mom was even worse. We used to have a long line of cars behind us whenever my mom would pick me up from school. I used to walk home the three miles just to avoid the embarrassment of it all.
The answer I always got back from my father was some temperamental variation of , “You don’t know what you’re TALKING ABOUT!” My Dad’s voice was like the sound of thunder. Thick German thunder, with a lightning crack at the very end. The type of voice that naturally sparks fear into other people, not to mention nearly every girlfriend I ever brought home. That Lincoln, like the late President would soon be history in our household
Three cars were in the running. The 1992 Cadillac Deville. The 1992 Lincoln Mark VII which was in it’s last year of production. And finally, a 1992 Lexus LS400. Today we know that the Lexus would naturally be the number one choice. But back then it wasn’t so cut and dry.
My father always loved Cadillacs. Even if they were as unstable as Bernie Goetz at an NAACP Convention. The Cadillac represented everything grand with America. Tons of seating. Plenty of power. The absolute pinnacle of American luxury. At least that’s what the commercials implied.
Thankfully he test drove the Cadillac Deville and quickly concluded that it was ‘The worst piece of drek I ever drove.’ When the salesperson asked him, “What would it take for you to drive this baby home?” My father just said, “Sure” Shook the guys hand and left. To this day I use that same exact response whenever I’m given a slightly offensive question. It beats wasting time.
The Lexus was a different story. It took a near act of God to get him to come to the Lexus dealership. Mom had an Acura Legend and to him that thing rode as hard as a wooden horse.However, I showed him a write-up in some car magazine (maybe Car & Driver) that mentioned it rode better than an S-Class. He knew that not even the Continental could compare with the King of Benzes. So he gave it a go.
When we went to the dealership he was absolutely agape at the quality. The seats were wonderful. The interior trim was light years beyond the cartoon blue vinyl and wooden stickers that were on the door panels and dashboard of the Continental. “It’s a good car… but I’m not going to spend more than $25,000. No car is worth more than $25,000.” Although I had images of Ferarris and Lamborghinis in my mind right after he uttered those words, I knew better than to argue.
Finally we saw the Lincoln Mark VII. Damn I hated Lincolns back then. The Mark VII was in it’s final year of production and no one except the dead and dying were looking at it. Why would they? The design was squarish at a time when nearly everything with two doors had an oval profile. The interior parts were nearly as rickety and cheap as the Fox body Mustang that it was based on.
It sucked in every way. Gas. Driving pleasure. Overt use of cheap plastics and chrome. To me it was a Kmart special on wheels. But then I got in one for the first time.
The seats were surprisingly comfortable with side bolsters. The first ones of any worth I had ever seen in an American luxury car. My Dad smiled as he got in the driver’s seat and inspected the placement of everything. Perfect. Just like it was in the Continental. The deal was done before the test drive was over. $22k out the door.
I’m guessing the old man didn’t spring for the $2,000 cell phone next to the shifter.
What was the price of the Lexus?
I believe it was right around $45k.
The LS400 showed up in 1989 at $35,000, but the post-Plaza appreciation of the yen was in full swing by 1992 so a new LS was over $40k by then.
“unstable as Bernie Goetz at an NAACP Convention”
cheap shot
But quite funny.
I agree with Advance_92
Great story, Steve. And yes, there are some people who are impervious to logic on some, if not all issues. It always amazes me.
A more apt line would be:
“As unstable as the attackers of Bernie Goetz in any society.”
There’s a lot to be said for controls that “fall to hand”.
Early 90’s Lincoln or Cadillac. Isn’t that controls that “fall off in hand?”
Thank God for Lexus. They showed us the path forward.
Have never experienced any controls falling off in hand so don’t know what you mean by that. They showed us the path forward alight. With a bunch of bland generic clone cars with nasty light tan and gray interiors and super complex expensive engines/trannys when they fail and are out of warranty. And believe me I have seen plenty of cooked Lexus DOHC V8’s over the years. The interior quality and fit and finish was better than the norm and certain parts were over-built so I will give them that. There are loads of 1990’s Cadillacs and Lincolns driving around in excellent shape and in good running order in the snow belt of upstate, NY so apparently these cars were built to a better standard in many ways too.
Ponchoman: Have never experienced any controls falling off in hand so don’t know what you mean by that.
I believe it’s called the “answer to the question nobody asked”.
The Cadillac, like the other full-size, front-wheel-drive GM cars of the 1980s and early 1990s, felt as though you could take the interior apart with your bare hands. Everything felt flimsy and cheap.
My parents replaced their 1982 Delta 88 Royale Brougham with a 1988 Delta 88 Royale Brougham, and I remember thinking how cheap and fragile the newer car felt (and that doesn’t include the higher level of road noise and constant drumming in the 1988 car). It also suffered from sloppy assembly. Except for fuel economy and initial acceleration (thanks to the reworked 3.8 V-6), the 1982 Olds was superior to the 1988 model in every way.
The Lexus V-8 was far better engineered than the Cadillac V-8. There is a reason that Lexus quickly eclipsed Cadillac in the luxury market (and even gave Merced-Benz a real scare), and it wasn’t because Americans were snookered by the ads or glowing reviews in the buff books. It simply built a far better car than Cadillac did.
I would still, however, happily take a mint 1984-87 Continental or any Continental Mark VII LSC. Very nicely styled and sized cars all around, and the 5.0 V-8 is a good engine. But a Cadillac? I don’t think so…it wasn’t even the Standard of GM by the early 1990s, let alone the Standard of the World. The 1980s and most of the 1990s were Cadillac’s low point, something even GM admitted as it spent billions earlier this decade in an attempt to reinvent the division.
@jjster6: “Thank God for Lexus. They showed us the path forward.”
Right after they copied Mercedes’template…
“There are loads of 1990′s Cadillacs and Lincolns driving around in excellent shape and in good running order in the snow belt of upstate, NY”
Ah, so the key to longevity in domestic luxury cars is to garage them for 8 months of the year.
geozinger,
They certainly copied styling elements from Mercedes and BMW, but the LS400 wasn’t a clone in terms of content or quality. It was Mercedes and BMW that were stuck playing catch-up to features like 32valve V8s, more advanced instrument displays, electronic features, manufacturing precision, audiophile sound systems, and performance that combined higher top speed with better fuel economy. The LS400 almost ruined Mercedes, as they struggled to try to find a way to match its content without doubling their prices. I had a Mercedes when the LS400 launched, and I didn’t want to accept its superiority. I had an SC400 as a company car by 1996, and I hated almost everything about it other than the drivetrain. Still, drive a Merecedes or BMW today, and it drives just like that POS SC400 and nothing like the Mercedes and BMWs that were on the market when the Lexus arrived.
@CJ: I remember vividly the first Lexus I saw, only because it was mistaken for a then-current Benz. Occasionally, it still happens to me when I see certain Lexus models.
One thing I admired? respected? the original Infiniti for was the fact they didn’t use the European metaphor for luxury car, at least in terms of styling.
Many people point to the changes that Toyota, Honda and Nissan have sparked in the luxury car market, but it seems to me the Europeans still have the template for the series. Reliability and feature sets have gone up, but the idiom of the luxury car is still a European one.
Today’s luxury car is a combination of European and American traits.
The Europeans brought the improved handling and braking to the table.
The Americans brought effective, reliable air conditioning, power assists and neat gadgets like cruise control to the table. Even in the late 1960s Mercedes didn’t offer cruise control or other gadgets that were spreading to everyday Fords and Chevrolets, if I recall correctly. Its air conditioning wouldn’t have been acceptable in a Chevrolet Impala, let alone a Cadillac Fleetwood. The initial German attitude was that you weren’t supposed to care…
Superior craftsmanship has always been a part of the game. Packard, Cadillac, Lincoln and Rolls-Royce were all noted for their superb build quality in the 1930s.
Cadillac emphasized this in the 1950s and early 1960s, as did Lincoln with the early suicide-door models…they did forget it in the rush to increase production in the late 1960s and 1970s.
Mercedes thus helped Americans “rediscover” the value of superior workmanship as it gained sales strength in the early 1970s.
We can thank Lexus for the nasty light tan and gray interiors that are a nightmare to clean and keep cleaned that are still plaguing us today. Sure the fit and finish was good but I couldn’t stand looking at that everyday. That sweet maroon interior of the Lincoln would have sold me on it too. It’s 2 door styling was also attractive at the time and still holds up well today. The time tested RWD chassis was also rock solid by this point. Curious what was so wrong with the Cadillac Deville. Have driven and sold loads of them with the excellent 4.9 liter V8 which provided loads of power and decent mileage and the interior offered a lot of space and comfort. Maybe it was the FWD. He must have been a true Ford guy.
+1
I can’t think of a single Lexus that doesn’t offer a black interior as an option, so is someone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy a light interior? Nothing reeks of a Malaise-era (to quote the recently departed banner article) American pseudo luxobarge quite like a red or maroon interior, to me. Give me tan or gray by a wide margin.
My Dad wanted to replace his 1987 Lincoln Continental which back then had reached the ‘100k trade-in’ point. I told him that the car had plenty of life left. But the more I talked, the more I realized that no form of reason would ever penetrate his viewpoint.
“Dad, you can drive that Lincoln for another 100k miles. Heck you don’t even go past 2000 rpm’s when you’re driving that thing.”
Have you been listening in on my family’s discussions? Although my father won’t consider anything that isn’t made by the artists formerly know as the Big 3 and GM always has the advantage in his mind. He was complaining yesterday that the work truck his employer provides has 117,000 miles on it, as if that indicated that the vehicles demise was at hand.
Sorry to pull out the 6th grade grammar lesson again, but since you are a journalist, here goes:
ITS = BELONGING TO “IT”
IT’S = IT IS.
get it???
Sure.
@bikephil: You probably will love this lawyer article. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/lawyers_motion_objects_to_opponents_use_of_possessives
Well played.
He thinks it’s fine.
He paid its fine.
Oww.
Back around 1998, my dad was shopping for a replacement for the 1988 T-Bird (with a 5.0, the smallest-displacement V8 my dad had ever owned in his life), and I actually talked him into a Northstar-powered STS (his first wrong-wheel drive car ever, but it was still American and had a V8).
At the time I didn’t yet know about the head gasket issues, or that the starter was inside the engine, or that the water-cooled alternator was mucho bucks and a major pain to get to, etc etc. He got a 23K mile dealer’s wife’s car for $23K (they had $26K on it but quickly came down once he started to walk) that was in showroom-new condition. That was one great car (far from perfect, but darnit, the interior was loads nicer than any of the receny Caddy’s I’ve been in with the super-hard seats and cheap-looking hard plastic door panels)
It gave him great service up until last summer when he traded it in for a new Taurus SHO (first V-6 powered and first AWD car that he has owned in his 73 years of life, but still American). Then I got to hear from him that “they don’t make snow tires for the 19″ rims so I had to get some 18s!”
You gotta love your dad!
The 1992 DeVille did not have the Northstar. It had a port injected 4.9 V8 which is actually a very reliable and smooth powerplant that delivered pretty good performance in these relatively light Cadillacs. Today, a 4.9 Caddy V8 is a common and fairly easy engine upgrade for a Fiero. These Cadillacs usually ran very well until the electronics started crapping out, which based on my experience with an ’89 did start happening around that fateful 100K mark.
Your father’s intransigence on the issue of the 100k “trade-in point” cracked me up. In our family the “trade-in point” was reached at roughly 80k miles. My father justified this on a purported belief that cars started developing serious problems at around that mileage. I think he just wanted to buy a new car every 2 – 3 years (the practice was applied to both his cars and my mother’s cars). Now that he’s retired and my parents are driving less, they actually keep their cars for much longer.
My father has always tried to get a new car every 3-4 years or so. He thinks my 30k mile 5 year old Subaru is “old” and I should replace it. I pointed out that he still has a 1997 Ford Explorer in the garage with 37k miles.
Although, I am thinking of replacing the car, but certainly not because it is “old.” It’s just slow.
Wow, 100000 miles is trade-in time? Am I also supposed to be changing oil every 3000 miles with some conventional Pennzoil? I must be crazy since I just bought a nine year old Golf TDI with 200000 miles on it! It will be getting a new timing belt and cam followers next weekend and I expect to drive it for another 100000 miles. I do not understand how people can think cars are suddenly going to self-destruct once 99999 miles shows up on their cluster.
I can. Lots of people who had their domestic vehicle go to pieces circa 100,000 miles can as well. If you had a Chrysler minivan and your transmission survived to 100,000 you’d probably be stupid to press your luck.
Wow, looking at that interior shot of the Lexus vs. the Lincoln makes me wonder how both vehicles could be sold in the same decade, no era. I do recall that steering wheel in the Lincoln, my old Taurus had the same one. Did Ford get a deal on those things or what?
My father has always and still to this day he calls Lexus (all models) a “tarted up Camry.” When my ex bought a GS350, he again said it was a “fancy Camry” and “why didn’t you just get a Camry?” No amount of arguing that it was a completely different platform would convince him otherwise. Tell him that Lincolns are just fancy Fords, he’ll agree, then say “I’ve always liked Ford.”
My Mom had a ’85 Continental Valentino Edition…Black over Gold. What a looker! At the time, it was quite a classy piece. She eventually traded it in for a ’89 Grand Marquis LS. Not as impressive…unfortunately. I totaled it. (and walked away with no injuries) She then got a Towncar Signature. Very nice, but for some reason the Lincolns that followed never got the looks that the Continental Valentino recieved. Although quality did improve over the years. Personally, I am more of a Mercedes S-Class guy. I own a ’91 420 SEL. Lincolns do not even compare slightly.
I still think that 100K miles is still really the breaking point for most cars in that parts WILL eventually wear, like many cars may have to have their clutches replaced by then if you aren’t the best at shifting one but still, the car WILL remain pretty reliable at that point and can, easily go to 200K if maintained well, but the incidences of BIG repairs ten to increase naturally as the car ages and many people don’t like to have to deal with these big expenses.
Nice story there Steve!
Well, I don’t know if I’d call it a breaking point unless it’s your wallet we’re talking about. Most modern cars need their first major service (plugs, drive belts, timing belt & rollers, water pump, etc) at around 100K miles, and this can easily exceed $1K (more if a luxury brand).
OR, you can choose to ignore the 100K mile service and drive it 20, 30, 40K miles longer (“I know what you’re thinking, punk, did he drive it 6000 miles or only five on that last oil change, and to tell you the truth, I’ve lost track myself . . . Do you feel lucky?) and then trade it in or pawn it off onto somebody else on Craigslist.
I’ve never thought of the Mk VII as boxy–it was one of their early aero cars. My father owned a 1986 LSC–which looked much better inside and out than the standard trim car in the photos. Back in 1986 the interior materials compared pretty well.
The piece mentions side bolsters, which imply that your father got the LSC. Not?
One correction: the wood in the Continental sedan, which was boxy, was actually the real thing, if memory serves.
It was an LSC. One of the stronger memories I have the Continental is a smattering of ‘wood stickers’ in various places.
I don’t know if that was a model specific thing or some strange add-on package. But my Dad’s certainly had them.
The LSC was well received when new, and got better when it gained fuel injection. By 1992 though, it had been eclipsed by the arrival of Lexus and no longer seemed like the big leap it was for enthusiasts when it replaced the MKVI. David E. Davis Jr. was a major proponent when it was new though, choosing one as his(mandatorily American) company car.
“What would it take for you to drive this baby home?” My father just said, “Sure” Shook the guys hand and left
In “Ed Wood” that was Bill Murray’s character’s response to the Baptists when they asked him if he rejected satan and all his works.
The 100K mark is psychological. It’s worth “more” below that phantom mark as a trade in. Dealers love the sub 100 mark. Everything becomes low mileage. Interesting enough, it also works for km’s too, even tho that’s only 60K miles. Just like the .99 thing.
1992?
He could have snagged a 350 powered Cadillac Bro-ham or Olds Trofeo.
Maybe even a sweet Y-body Imperial.
“a hassle for me to even get a word in at the dinner table.”
My Uncle/Aunt (two brothers married two sisters) so the six kids of theirs, my cousins, are especially close genetically, were “old school.”
Food itself for that family could be a hassle.
Youngest boy made a grab for the last piece of fried chicken.
Oldest boy poked him with his fork, drawing blood.
Poked one bled but a minor wound.
Oldest boy then speared the chicken.’
Uncle, their father, responded to poked one’s wails with “too damn slow. Gotta’ be quicker.”
True.
The youngest is now a prison guard.
Scoffs at the danger.
Says growing up at home was more dangerous.
When he relates other events… I have to agree.
That bunch grew up tough.
If ever wandering the wilds of Nebraska be friendly to anybody you encounter.
Might be a cousin.
Some make more money from hunting and trapping than their jobs.
And none fear being confronted by a bear or rare mountain lion.
I would feel sorry for the critter.
The Lincoln was the right choice, especially for the price.
Why would anyone have wanted one of those Cadillac Devilles in 1992, anyway? Even within GM’s lineup of the time, the Roadmaster, Park Avenue, and 98 were much more up-to-date (and probably more affordable) choices for a luxury cruiser.