I have always been a ‘keeper’. Even though my inventory varies these days from muscle car’s to minivan’s, my own daily driver has always been a long-term affair. It’s an addiction that goes well beyond cars. Quality, stewardship. An opportunity to make your professional work enduring. Keeping and preserving your ride usually goes well beyond the economics of the car itself. That’s why the most fervent of horse traders in any business will eventually find a personal keeper or two. And chances are it’s not always going to be something that is flashy or popular.
It’s hard to let go of what you know. I have a friend of mine that’s always driven a Pontiac Bonneville for the last 15 years. It doesn’t meet any Eurocentric definition of a good car. The plastics are a bit cheap to put it kindly. The supersized exterior is riddled with bulbous curves and cheap body cladding. Let’s face it. Most of you will automatically hate this type of car. But you know what? I like it. He loves it… and that’s how a keeper car is kept. Reasoning be damned.
It’s irrational. Even a bit on the weird side. The nice stuff, Mustang Police Interceptors, 300ZX’s, and old school Benzes will always make an enthusiast smile. But they’re never kept as daily drivers for the long run. Why? Because they simply cost too much to keep up with.
I would rather not buy anything than fall victim to ‘automotive compulsive disorder’ with a barnacle bitch of a driver. It’s nice to drive a fancy and temperamental car. But to keep? Screw that. Keepers can’t be expensive because as keepers, we have a habit of sparing no expense. Price? It does matter. But only as a long-term consideration.
The best oils. The best filters. The best tires. Yes, there are those keepers that are thrown to the wolves of teenage drivers and new owner neglect. But an enthusiast’s keeper is usually given the equivalent of fresh fluids and vitamins whenever it’s required.
It makes a monumental difference in the vehicle’s quality and longevity. Even though my first keeper was a 1994 Toyota Camry, a refrigerator incarnate, I considered my car to be all kinds of awesome. After 12 years and 240k the Camry still shifted and rode like brand new. That was because I changed the tranny fluid every 30k, kept up with whatever was needed, and never dogged the damn thing. .
Irrational you say? Well doing 7 of my own tranny fluid changes turned out to be cheaper than 1 at the dealership. Plus my car is still on the road years after I sold it. While most of it’s contemporaries are either molderizing near Murilee Martin or changing themselves into Chinese exports.
Not too long an old ‘keeper’ was symbolic of a weird guy or an old fart. Today a keeper car is a status symbol of sorts. You, Mr. Keeper, have essentially outsmarted the conspicuous consumer culture. You own the car. You may even have equity in your house… and who knows? You may even become the millionaire next door.
I would hazard to guess that most of you have keepers that are seen as cheap, old… perhaps even a bit crappy. But beauty is found in many things. For the keeper, it’s the pleasure of being the car owner instead of the debt holder. You may be as poor as dirt when all the depreciating dollars are added up. But at least you own what you got… and that’s what makes a ‘keeper’ rich.
I definitely feel the same way about having “keepers”. With the exception of 1 car, a 2006 Mazda 3 wagon which has major issues, I’ve had/will have keepers. My first was a 1990 Integra GS, driven to 160k miles and then I got the Mazda. And a 90 F150 Custom. Should have kept the Acura.
Currently we have an 07 Outback (replaced both the Mazda and Ford). My wife brought an 84 760 Turbo to the marriage, which was sold for scrap last fall as it had a failing turbo and headgasket issues…I would have fixed those if it weren’t for some major electrical concerns. Wish I had kept the truck when the Volvo died. The Outback is a billy goat on the backroads and in the winter, also holds alot for road trips with 2 young boys. Plus, it’s getting rare to have a manual-equipped full-time AWD station wagon. Yeah, the H6 would be nice at times. Hell, I just hauled 8 railroad ties this past weekend and still had about an 1.5 inches of spring left.
But, I found the ultimate keeper (in my eyes) and bought it from a keeper kind of guy. A 1998 Acura 3.2TL in immaculate condition. I’ve asked Sajeev about potential head gasket issues, but I think I’d get it fixed and keep driving it. Other than that concern, it needs some new shocks. But, it has a smooth V6 (only 200hp), shifts crisply, every button and switch is fluid and works like new, and has that nice Honda 90s conservative look. Sometimes I wish it had a Type-II engine and a manual…but then it would have been ragged on. My dad has been bothering me about selling it next year when my brother is 17, I hate to do that to the car…and my wife is pressuring me to get something newer and more efficient. She likes the Cruze ECO (with manual) and the new Impreza, which I like as well. But, I hate to have a car note for 3-4 years when I have 2 car titles.
The Outback and Acura are definitely keepers.
90s Hondas/Acuras are indestructible. My 93 Accord wasn’t a looker, but it never let me down. Hell, I drove that thing through a field at a friend’s house one night.
I can sympathsize with you on wishing you hadn’t sold your Integra. That’s how I feel about Accord, especially after replacing it with a Dakota. But the Dakota was replaced with a 97 Integra GS that I will never, EVER let go of.
It’ll be my daily driver until the wheels fall off driving down I40. and the body is crushed by a tractor-trailer dodging the fallen wheels.
I have my keeper…
2003 Acura CL-S 6 Speed manual…
sure I could afford a “better” car, but for my money, there isnt one…
http://acurazine.com/forums/album.php?albumid=7154&pictureid=37781
Why do I keep it?
– dont see many on the road
– love the lines
– 135,000 miles, original clutch
– thousands of shifts at 7,200rpm… nary a hiccup… yes I know, quoted redline is 6,950 but with the right mods, it busts through the redline without a peep… in fact, i think the car gets upset when it doesnt get a few trips to the red zone EVERY day… :-)
– gearbox made by the best (amazing what solid aluminum shifter bushings will do)
– simple modifications yield real pleasure and measurable benefits
– being on the highway and walking away from “better” cars when from their opinion, I have no business doing so…
Overall, THE most reliable car I have ever owned.
I also have an LS1 Camaro SS, but truth be told, I prefer the Acura. V8’s are cool, but the J32A2 is like a turbine on the highway and relentless as it spins through the gears…
Apologies for the effusive praise of the Acura, I am just one very pleased owner…
Next car: 2010 Acura TL-SHAWD 6 Speed
– and yes, I think the design, style, and lines are gorgeous. Ride height and wheels can do wonders when the fundamental form is sound.. overhangs be damned!!!
I think alot of Acura owners are very pleased. They may dwell in the background and not be as competitive on the market, but they’re damned fine vehicles.
yeah, I’ve noticed that.
People who value the cars over the brand.
When my father got his TSX in 2004 my mother hated it. We’d all had German cars for almost 20 years. After 7 years, replacement of the stock Michelins with Bridgestone RE960 Pole Positions, and one recalcitrant lock servo, she is insisting on replacing her BMW with a Honda product. At this age the BMW was on its third transmission, the window motors had been replaced twice on the driver side and once on the passenger side, the dash had been apart chasing faults so many times that the fit and finish resemble that of a discarded day care toy, and then there’s that evil word ‘sensor.’ Her previous Porsche was no stranger to the four figure oil change either. Magazine reviews ALWAYS say that Acuras aren’t considered by BMW drivers, but I’ll tell you they end up being considered by former BMW keepers.
We’ve owned several “keepers” over the years: 1981 Plymouth Reliant (7 yrs.); 1984 Chrysler E-Class (8 yrs.); 1990 Plymouth Acclaim (10½ yrs.); 1996 Ford Ranger (6 yrs.); 1992 Chrysler LeBaron convertible (8½ yrs.); 2002 Honda CR-V & 2004 Impala which we still own.
We’re going for a minimum of 10 yrs. on our current rides.
Glad I’m not the only one. I bought a used 87 K car a drove it from 77k to 253K. And just like Mr. Lang, I used quality oils, changed items like belts and hoses on a schedule. Struts, too. Even stuff like trans cooler hoses and brake hoses were replaced once. Only changed the trans fluid once though. This was my daily driver; I always had a good other car, too. But I bonded very tightly to that car. It rewarded me with stellar reliability. I rewarded the car with leather seats and other items out of a wrecked New Yorker. A head gasket was the end. I replaced this with my family’s 92 Sable, also treated to leather seats out of a wreck. I had nowhere near the mileage on the Sable as the K, so my bonding with it is less. Yet I still have it, 125K and 19 years old. A tiny rust spot has formed over the left rear wheel, so the end may be near…
You either get it or you don’t…
K-cars never got their due. They could be very reliable basic functional transportation. I wish I had owned a 1990 Acclaim (A body) like Zackman. The ultimate K-car (as basic family transportation). The ultimate sports K was the Dodge Daytona IROC-RT with the 224 hp 16v turbo (G body), the ultimate family hauler K the original minivan (T body), ultimate luxury K the New Yorker Fifth Aveneue and Imperial (Y body). I did have 1990 LeBaron convertible (J body). The 1992 that he mentioned above was the last year for the hideaway headlights which I thought looked better than the fixed lights of the 93-95 models.
And here I thought this post was going to be about the awesome Northstar-powered Bonneville GXP. Damn. FWIW, I really liked the last iteration of the Bonnie, I thought the car drove smaller than it actually was. Many may disagree, but I liked the styling of the car both inside and out.
I’ve had several keepers, just because the car really fit my lifestyle or was reliable and inexpensive to run. The first was a Dodge Lancer ES Turbo, bought the car new and kept it 11 years, 160K miles. It had it’s share of faults, most cars of the 80’s did, but the turbo never failed to kick in and the hatchback bodystyle kept me from having to own a minivan.
The other is a Chevy Cavalier I bought with 192K miles on it. Still runs pretty well, but at 14 years and 249K there are some issues cropping up that will cause me to look for it’s replacement. The whole time I’ve had it (7 years), it’s gotten excellent gas mileage and only incidental items have broken. But rust has eaten away at the body and I fear that it’s too far gone to repair without a major outlay of dollars. I could really use a small hauler and I think that it’s time to replace it. It’s a grocery getter for sure, but it’s cheap to own and run, it can take my and my kid’s abuse and I can park it anywhere. Best $1000 I ever spent.
My mom also had a 87′ Lancer ES Turbo five speed. I loved the car from an early age the telephone dial wheels, the hood vent and the TURBO! I think that is the car that got me into cars in the first place. Now I am a “Keeper” of SAABs I love the turbo and the hatch of my 99′ 9-3 five speed. I hope to get atleast 300K out of the car through school.
I too liked the last-gen Bonnie. The curves and all-around styling was at its peak – plus – here it comes – the back windows rolled down further! Sorry, but that’s just me.
Cheap plastics aside, I think the Bonneville makes for a great keeper. Couldn’t convince the wife though.
Bought a 96 Bonneville SSEi for $400 with over 200K on it two years ago. Replaced the fuel lines and a couple of wear items and it’s been going strong ever since. It does drive smaller than it is, and you get good power out of the supercharged 3.8 without having to stress it too much. Of course the plastics are cheap, and after all this use and abuse some are falling apart. And the mouse fur headliner is hanging down in places, but I can’t bring myself to get rid of it. It survived my kid driving it to school and everywhere else and outside of gas I still don’t have $1000 in it yet. It’s not my DD but I’d say it qualifies as a keeper. That GXP in the pictures is the holy grail for bonneville fans, would love one of those in the fleet.
Replacing the material on a shell headliner is kind of time consuming, but it’s pretty easy to do.
Shops are charging like $500 to replace them. I fixed mine in my ’83 Pontiac Parisienne for about $50.
You can see the procedure here: http://yankeedriver.wordpress.com/2010/08/28/fix-your-saggy-headliner/
I’ll probably get around to it eventually. If it wasn’t for the weird fasteners GM used in the 90’s to screw them together, you could almost work on the thing with a hammer and a pair of pliers, except for the electronics (climate control, heads up display etc.) it’s as reliable as an anvil. (knocks wood).
You, Mr. Keeper, have essentially outsmarted the conspicuous consumer culture. You own the car. You may even have equity in your house…
At lot of it is driven by people who were spending 30 or 40% of gross income on housing. They aren’t driving a keeper because of some noble objection to consumerism, they are driving a keeper because they spent way too much on a now underwater home.
That’s one great assumption, might be true for some but definitely not all.
Many people have paid their house off and choose to live frugally or like to not have debt at all. Some would rather have a few other toys (boat, RV) and not buy new cars all the time.
I’m a young guy with a young family, and although I do have a mortgage it is certainly not 30-40% of my/our gross income…even with assessed values having dropped in the northwest a bit.
I also have 2 cars paid for, but with two young boys I don’t see the need to be buying new cars often. I’d rather be dumping money into short-term and long-term savings, college savings, and their primary education (private).
Of course, you like to make assumption of people’s financial wherewithall since it may not be to your level…which we all know is to be more than most, since you think everyone should have a brand-new car so very often.
And if we don’t have a brand new car, then we’re simply not an enthusiast and should not be reading or commenting on car blogs. I think you’ve made that point to me before. Some day I’ll learn your ways.
you like to make assumption of people’s financial wherewithall since it may not be to your level
I’m not the one making that assumption. I’m just noting that sometimes the keeper is the result of a conscious decision to live a frugal lifestyle and other times its the result of a bad career move, ill timed investment or expensive divorce. It’s often impossible to tell from a distance.
Generally, jmo, those who have beat to crap older cars are more likely to be in the financial straits that you describe. Us old car people who get the bond-to-the-car thing usually have no body damage at all…if you have to generalize…
Gaaah! That Pontiac interior… absolutely HATE it. Cheap, cheap cheap.
Was never a huge fan of the styling on the Pontiac Boneville but that appears to be a 2005 GXP model, a Lutz inspired clean cladding free exterior with some actually darn right handsome rims. The car picked above, looks pretty darn good in silver.
Say what you want about the made by Playskool interior, the ergonomics were good and buttons were obvious in those dark days of GM interior plastics, easily operated even when wearing gloves in the winter.
I’ve had one keeper in my life – 1989 Ford Probe – drove that car for 186K miles before finally moving on.
I’ve had several keepers, however i failed to keep them and my current Merc C230 Coupe isn’t one of them
No, it isn’t.
Holy grammar errors Batman!
I hope in response to the recent “Rise of the V-Four…” article, you haven’t started firing your editors, because this article needs some attention.
My family as a lot of keepers. The ‘newest’ car we sold off was my 10 year old Altima after the transmission started to slip and little things were going (previous owner was not as good to that car as I was). The 2003 Camry that I drive now is low mileage and solid. Not a single real problem in all the years we have had it, though my father treated it well and rarely drove the car (21k on the odo in late 2009; 59k miles currently with my usage). However, I often question whether the era of keepers are past us. base Camry will do as a keeper. but now that everything has nav systems, 20 speaker stereos, and automatic everything, I see too many expensive repairs in the future to keep them near as long.
+1 on the risk of repairs to all the systems on newer cars. It reminds me of buying used sailboats… the basic boat may be OK, but the electronic$ that jazz up the description in the ad are either broken or soon will be.
Last year, in my 19th year of ownership (yes, I paid cash) something finally failed on my keeper Accord: the dash knob/wire that opens/closes the heating gate. A new knob cost me all of $75 including labor. I’m not sure the old girl is good for another 19 years, but if so I’m expecting more financial pain along the way. Who knows, maybe a door lock will wear out or something.
I’ve owned several keepers. My current daily driver is a 1999 Honda Accord EX V6 coupe featured in a couple of piston slap articles. Amazed that it still looks good after 12 years. Cost me a transmission rebuild, but the rest of the car has been very reliable and parts replaced so far have been inexpensive. Bought it with 9 miles on the odometer and know it’s entire history. Paint oxidation will catch up with it in a couple years, but I’m tempted to keep it as a reliable backup while I experience German car ownership.
I’ve always been a keeper. When growing up I thought it crazy that people considered a car “used up” when it got close to 100k miles. It was a personal quest to prove the masses wrong. First I drove a 1990 Ford Taurus past 200k miles on the original tranny. Not difficult when you change the transmission fluid and don’t flog the shit out of it. Since then I’ve had a couple used vehicles that I’ve put past 200k miles on but found that buying at 150,000 miles is tough since previous owners aren’t always driving with high mileage in mind. Currently I have a 1999 Accord that I’m thinking could go to 300,000 miles and beyond. Already personally put 150,000 miles on that one over 10 years, not including the almost 50k the original owner racked up. Today there is no reason a new vehicle shouldn’t last 10+ years and well over 200,000 miles in my opinion.
My present keeper is a 1999 Toyota Solara with 158k miles and exactly one visit to the repair shop at 125k. Past one was a 1987 Audi 5000Q that I got rid of 22 years later after realizing that some of my dates were younger than the car.
BTW, Stephen, “muscle car’s to minivan’s”: no apostrophies needed!
My keeper is of the two-wheeled variety: 1995 Triumph Trident. As of this afternoon, 105,830 miles. Serviced every 6,000 miles, as per factory specs. Didn’t cost me any particular money (other than the usual consumables) until the 96,000 service (starter clutch went) and 102,000 (where I gave the dealer carte blanche, starting with the suspension – yes, I was on the original). Still on the original clutch.
More importantly, this is the bike that: a. Got me my wife, b. Got me out of town with the club’s treasury when we went down in a nasty little fight with the Pagans, c. Took me on more adventures than any 45-60 year old normally has the right to.
Not only is it a keeper. I want to be buried with it. Preferably, on it.
Almost forgot: The mileage on the Triumph is that low because I’ve always owned two modern motorcycles at a time – minimum. During the Trident’s tenure I’ve also had: 95 Triumph Speed Triple (12K), 2000 Triumph Tiger (36k), 1990 Ducati 906 Paso (14K), 1985 BMW K75C (45K) 1996 Kawasaki ZX-6R Ninja (6K), 2008 Jinan Qingqi 150cc scooter (6K) and my current alternative, the H-D Springer in my avatar (30k under my ownership). Yeah, I like to ride.
I’ve put six figures on three bikes now, and I’m on track to get the fourth one there in the fall of ’12. It’s a rare year that I don’t double or triple the mileage I put on my four wheel vehicles with my two-wheeled ones. My big year was 1999, when I rode 46,000+ miles.
About fifteen years ago I was competing in endurance rallies and I learned that it’s a bad idea to put high miles on new bikes. Best to do that with ones that are bottoming out on their depreciation curves. I have a supply of Honda V65 Sabres for now, but I”ll probably move to ST1100s as they’re the current champ for reliable high miles. BMWs will get there, but with significantly more investment in repairs and maintenance, and I’ve just never been a fan of the bikes.
My philosophy is if you’re replacing a car by the note length, then that is a failure. I can’t imagine anything so expensive as a disposable item.
I’ve had a few keepers, mostly hated by the end of their lives and yes, they DID go to the junkyard. My current keeper is just a damn good vehicle. I love for its strengths, its very few weaknesses. It’s not stylish or cool, but I’m gonna take it to the junkyard too, hopefully in 10 years or so unless either I win a lottery or something catastrophic happens.
BTW, it’s a 2004 Jetta TDI. 210K km on it and it’s just barely broken in. :)
I think any decent car can be a keeper as long as it is properly maintained. Rust is the only real killer. Which these days probably means going far above and beyond what the manufacturer maintenance schedule calls for. It also helps to buy the least complicated version of the car.
I do think a keeper has to be a car you genuinely like, unless you are one of those who just doesn’t care about cars or driving at all. Life is too short to drive a turd forever, even if it is 100% reliable and cheap to maintain. For me, no Camrys need apply.
But ultimately, it cracks me up that folks will spend $20K on depreciation to avoid the occasional $1K-2K repair out of warranty. See it all the time on the BMW forums. Crazy. It is pretty much always cheaper to fix the one you have. If you can DIY, all the better. Now if you buy a new car just because you want a new car, that is quite another thing entirely. I can respect that.
I have been a serial old-car DIY buyer, who is now in the position to buy new when I want to. Bought an ’08 Saab 9-3 during the fire sale in ’09, loved it and planned to keep it a while. But the combination of BMW deciding not to sell wagons in the US, and the impending long-drawn out potential demise of Saab made me change my mind. Sold the Saab while the selling was still good (did VERY well, all things considered) and ordered one of the last BMW 328iT wagons. Which WILL be a keeper, as they seem disinclined to sell me another one to my taste after this year. Nowhere to go from here, unless the Germans eat crow and bring back the 5-series wagon. And at that it would have to be RWD and manual transmission for me to even contemplate it! And the price would certainly give me pause. I can afford it, but would I WANT to? The 3-er was spendy enough.
For toys, I do have one definite keeper – I have had my ’74 Triumph Spitfire for 15+ years now. Great little car, very reliable, worth a little more every year. I drive it 500-1000 miles a year these days. I’ll probably be buried in it.
My dad is the ultimate car keeper. In my lifetime (20 years), he’s owned four cars as daily drivers. All have had ridiculous mileages put on them. The first was a 1988 Ford Tempo bought before I was born. It gradually self-destructed, and when I was five was replaced by a Ford Aerostar. This, inexplicably, soldiered on to 400,000 km. That may be a record for an Aerostar.
When the van was replaced after too many years of good service, its spot in the driveway was filled by a (much more worldly) naturally-aspirated Saab 9000. This car too did its due, until mounting repair costs at the 385k mark made its continued use unjustifiable. Now he’s driving a base-model NG Saab 900, currently at 255k.
My mum’s cars have been replaced more frequently, but that’s a different matter.
I’m still driving our 2003 Jetta, but it was my wife’s choice originally, not mine. I’m aiming to have my next car as a keeper (at least that’s the intent), probably by this time next year. I have a couple of possibilities in mind, but will probably drop a question here for the Best and the Brightest to get everyone’s opinion as well when the time comes.
interesting there are a bunch of mk4 Jettas being noted as keepers, here. Count me in this bucket too. 170k miles and counting
biggest concerns are small hood paint chips turning into rust spots but should be years before it becomes chronic
This one strikes close to home. My dad’s keeper is a ’00 Bonneville SSEi, Galaxy Silver Metallic, purchased brand-spankin’ new and treated better than most women.
My keeper will be my first car – a ’96 Aurora. I don’t care how much ginger root I have to keep dumping into the coolant resivoir.
Being from Michigan, rust took all my keepers, not high mileage.
Even driving 30,000 + miles a year the mechanicals never failed me on my old Merican cars.
A key item in my keepers was changing the transmission fluid.
Since each car was purchaased used, one of the first duties was draining the transmission pan and changing the filter. I would then weld a nut to the pan to create a drain plug. Then I would drain the trans fluid every oil change. Then change the trans filter every 30,000 miles. Real cheap since most trans fluid drains only require 2-3 quarts.
I understand where you’re coming from. Especially seeing my keeper as a status symbol of sorts. Just 6 months ago I found a “new” keeper…a one owner, garaged, regular cab f150 xlt. It had 21k miles on it when I bought it. I’ve put 6k miles on it, changed all of the fluids, and plan on keeping it for 10 years or so. I love it. The funny thing is, is the attention it gets from other car guys.
What’s the best Honda? The best Nissan?
I see a lot of the 2000-2003 model Maximas on the road still.
My, my, my, look at those high mileages…where are the “anything GM makes is trash” people…
Yeah… my buddy is what you might call “frugal”. His 97 Sunfire GT, the odo quit at 300,000 KLM. The little beast has been hit hard twice, and survived a teenage boy driver. Fourteen Southern Ontario winters,and it still runs. Not well,and certainly not for long.
The dude could write a check for a new car,and not put a dent in his stash. He is for sure, a keeper of cars.
Mikey: Did you help build my 2004 Impala? I’ve been meaning to ask you this for awhile. Or were you off the line by then? Just curious…
@ zackman…..Nooo didn’t build your 04. I left production in 1997.
Current family keeper is my son’s 1997 Toyota Tercel…193k on it, and dang it…the car still runs like a top. No leaks, interior looks more robust than my wife’s soon-to-be new Scion tC. Oh, how I hated to see that little Tercel go onto the back of the truck transport to be hauled off to Colorado Springs (my son can finally have his own car on campus…I had been using it daily for the last two years here in Alabama). That simple white box of a car did everything I asked, without fail. The 2006 Fusion we’re getting ready to rid ourselves of should have been so rock solid!
My personal keeper is the 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback Ralliart that is waiting for me back in South Carolina after my wife gets her tC. Is the Lancer the fastest car out there? Hardly…but I grin like a bleeding idiot when I drive it, and I truly enjoy the fact that I don’t see myself coming or going in this car. I’ve not had a car in recent years that I felt so good about driving and have had a real desire to keep long term. Here’s to long term car ownership!
Those old Bonnies aren’t too bad really. The 3800 is ancient, but makes good torque and while the interior is comically bad, it’s a pretty nice riding old boat. I wouldn’t buy one, but those things are pretty cheap to keep on the road.
As for me, I like buying cars after they’re well past the “keeper” stage because I’m a total glutton for punishment and I enjoy the challenge of turning years of neglect into what could possibly be a reliable car once again.
The Grand Prix is probably a better car. The Bonneville is very, very slightly more sophisticated and has a very, very slightly better back seat, but on balance the Grand Prix (with the same engine) is the better car.
And in the latter GPs you got an interior that, if not remotely top-shelf, wasn’t nearly as awful.
I’ve owned three Bonnevilles (’89, ’90 and ’92), two Grand Prixs (’95 and ’00), and two Grand Ams (’92 and ’93).
I preferred the Bonnevilles because they comparatively gave me little trouble, lasted way longer, and there just overall seemed to be a lot more “detail sweating” on them. The 7th-gen Bonneville is just a killer car. YMMV though if you are looking at the newer ones.
’95 Corsica. 12 years and ~120k miles. Severe structural rust and possible intake manifold gasket failure. Crushed.
’86 Cavalier. 12 years and ~120k miles. Severe structural rust, dead dash, and power steering issues. Crushed.
’98 K2500. 12 years and ~120k miles. Severe rust everywhere, power steering issues, dead catalytic converter, dieseling. Yard truck.
12 years and 120k miles seems to be the limit on GM vehicles in the rust belt, at least in my family.
Rust kills them all. A yearly soaking of oil will buy you 15-16 max. Rusty fuel and brake lines can send a lot of them to a premature death.
I’m trying for 15 out of my 2009 Impala. I hate the mess of oil spray,but its the only thing that keeps them alive.
Rusty brake lines almost sent ME to a premature death! I was using the 2500 as a landscaping truck. My mechanic had noted that the lines were a tad rusty but nothing I had to worry about. Maybe next inspection they’d need replacing.
One day, I was heading to an account that was located off of a Y intersection on a steep curved downward slope. Normally nothing is coming so I can cross the opposing lane without using much braking. This day, however, a ricer came zooming up the hill and due to the curvature of the hill and the trees surrounding it, I didn’t see Speed Racer until the last second. I slam on the brakes. All is good for 3/4 of pedal travel, but the last quarter goes “squish!” Oh crap. I drop the shifter into second (gear selector got fragged by the previous mechanic…) but the truck doesn’t slow much. Pumping the brake pedal does nothing. I said a quick prayer that nobody would be stopped in front of me. Luckily, although the hill is curvy, the base of the hill was long and flat, which allowed me to safely come to a stop using the e-brake.
After taking a five minute breather, I muscled up the courage to bring the truck back to base using only the e-brake. The return trip was mostly uphill or flat and completely uneventful.
I’m a keeper of vehicles, right up untill they p–s me off. I had planned on keeping my 97 Chevy long box WT. However the bench seat was a back killer. I traded it in for a 2003 Jimmy, that my wife claimed for herself. Eight years later it doesn’t get more than 5000 KLMs a year on the clock. I’ve tried to dump it more than once.
“Mikey don’t you even think about selling the Jimmy, you got that?”
So in the name of matrimonial harmony it sits in the driveway,and it p—me off.
If Jimmy is making your wife happy, so be it.
1st car: ’73 Nova with 60K miles, Dad bought for $2K. Drove it until ’87, sold for $600 with 135K miles. 3rd owner drove from NY to school in Colorado. Last saw it in ’91, had been turned into a hot rod. Tranny died in ’81, replaced with Aamco rebuild, which in turn was replaced under warranty. Wish I still owned it.
2nd car: ’80 Century Aeroback, bought from friend’s parents in ’87 for $1800. Had about 60K miles when I bought it, traded in with 130K in ’93. Replaced everything but the engine.
3rd car: ’90 Taurus, bought from dealer for $6K with about 70K miles. Former fleet car, real clean and looked like a bargain. Like the Buick, engine & peripherals were great but lots of trim, cooling and electrical parts were was replaced. Most galling repair was heater core, which required dismantling dash and dropping steering column. This is in a car that received annual coolant flush and fills. Spent 7 years doing Ford’s final assembly. Got to know parts guys on a first name basis. Car was rock solid reliable except the day the tranny finally gave up the ghost. Got a used replacement for $600 installed. Car never ran better. Sold in ’99 w/140K mi for $1500 to a neighbor who drove it several more years.
Bought new ’99 Altima, kept until’10. Sold with 95K miles for $2600 to a guy who desperately needed a reliable ride. Too bad he died 3 months later. One and only problem: differential disintegrated, required replacing the transaxle. Not a single used/rebuilt to be found, had to buy a crate tranny.
Current ride is a ’07 500 w/30K miles. Yes, I changed the tranny fluid. Hope to keep for 10 years.
A few other cars bought and discarded along the way, but I always have a keeper around.
@ Strippo….how true.
Keeper of dead brands here:
1995 Lincoln TC, last 6 years replaced the following: air suspension (at 138000), ejectors at 90,000). Everything else normal wear tires, battery) Now at 148,000 and hope to get to 300,000 or hang up the keys which ever comes first.
1998 Isuzu Trooper, 172,000 alternator only fail that was not normal wear out. Pushes out the oil due to design flaw but runs at highway speed drinking gas as it goes. Will be my oldest Grandson’s daily driver in three months.
2004 Pontiac Grand Prix with standard 6. Wife’s driver, can’t really count as a keeper yet, only 30,000 miles. One rear bearing assembly only fail. Wife says she is keeping it, (Grandma was a cop likes to go fast).
I’m cultivating a long-term keeper in my low-miles (12,400) 2006 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. Over the 2 years that the long wheelbase “TJ” bodystyle was available coupled with the Rubicon goodies, they only made a little over 12,000 of them. I plan on keeping it for at least another 30 years – seriously. Among other things, I also have a 1988 Merkur Scorpio that I’ve owned for 14 years – still runs great.
I always thought the 2nd gen CL-S was a beautiful design. Acura needs to get back to making an RSX again as well.
The current issue of Motor Trend said the RSX is coming back and Honda has green lighted three sports car programs.
Thanks be to the car gods! Honda needs to bring back a sporty little car. I never understood why they killed off the Integra/RSX line.
I’ve had a 1987 300SDL for a bit more than 10 years, and it’s cost about $800/yr on average to keep it running (some years nada, others big chunks of change). In the last year or two I’ve wearied of the accumulation of niggling issues, and given my preference for 2-wheeled travel I’m considering selling or trading what’s left of it in for a ‘practical’ 4-wheel Costco appliance, preferably a wagon, hybrid or minivan with a hitch.
2003 Honda Accord EX-L sedan with 5-speed manual (A combination no longer offered by Honda) Bought new. 166,000+ miles. Disc brake pads just replaced recently. Still on its factory original battery. Full synthetic oil since first change.
Have a 2002 EX-L coupe with the F23 and 5-speed. Never seen another one. I love Hondas, but until it pulls its head out of its corporate arse, I’ll be keeping this one for a good long while. Fortunately, at 110K it has yet to show any signs of wear except to the interior.
I could be tempted by a 2006-08 Acura TL or TL-S with a manual, but the four-banger has been so economical and bulletproof that I hesitate to spring for a car with additional maintenance complexity. The valves are easy to get to, and though the timing belt took most of a day to replace it was a straightforward job.
I bought our 1998 Camry second hand and had it rustproofed with a “lifetime protection” wax-based product. Lately I was a bit disappointed that the door seams underneath both front doors were starting to show rust.
However, I’ve seen newer Camry’s that have visible surface rust at the usual rust spots (rear fender, door sill), so maybe it wasn’t a bad way of spending $400. I gave the car to my father, and he’ll probably enjoy another 5-10 years out of it without turning into a rust jalopy.
I recall reading many years ago in Popular Mechanics that you needed to apply good rustproofing products when a car was brand new, as rust takes root immediately, even if it doesn’t defeat factory rust prevention for a number of years. Technologies may well have improved(or worsened due to EPA nonsense), but that was what they said after consulting with rust proofing companies circa 1984.
We can put a man on the moon but can’t effectively rustproof a car? How about spray-on bedliner? That stuff is tough as nails if applied right. Saw a Silverado Z71 with the sides bedlinered halfway up. Anyways it looked tough.
Although I will always rue not keeping my 1993 Honda Accord LX, my current car is definitely my keeper. I loved my Accord. It was my first car, but I made the mistake of selling it after only 2 years of ownership to get a 1995 Dodge Dakota. That was a disaster. After only a year and a half, I sold it to buy my current car: a 1997 Acura Integra GS.
Acuras have already been mentioned in these comments, so I’m obviously not alone. In a world full of ricers, my Integra is one of the few that remains stock…and that’s the way I like it. I don’t necessarily consider it a “cool” car. I love it because it drives well and it’s reliable. It’s full of dings, the antenna won’t retract because the nylon broke, the leather seats are drying out, the lower dash is broken, and the change tray is broken. None of that really matters to me, though, because it’s a driver’s car. I can’t help but feel good when I get behind the wheel of my car.
But you know what, it’s a 14 year old car with only 125,xxx miles. I bought it at 10 years old with 48,000 miles and haven’t looked back. The only maintenance I’ve done on the car is routine save for two antennas, the radiator, the windshield, and the rear trailing arm bushings.
My car has plenty of life left on it, and I refuse to sell it. Even when I can get a new car, I’m going to hang onto my little Integra…at least for a back-up car. My friends joke that 10 years from now I’ll still be driving my little Integra as a daily driver. Sure, it could use a tune-up and it’s probably about time to replace the suspension, but I just love my car.
I honestly can’t fathom parting with it. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to find a car that I enjoy as much as I do my Integra.
My Keeper…1989 Taurus SHO
Most people think i`m crazy,but I love the old beast and even at the cost of about a grand a year to maintain,she will be with me a while!
Very refreshing to see this sort of car ownership articulated so well on an “enthusiast” website. Maybe the popularity of Curbside Classics and similar articles on ttac is because a very large proportion of the readers are of the “keeper” mentality, rather than gearheads or BMW/Boxter owners.
I never keep a car for less than 10 years. Our current second car is a 1990 Dodge Spirit, which we’ve had for 10 years. It gets whatever it needs, and has had some modest improvements such as alloys, power locks, trip computer, rear headrests and sound insulation. No rust, original (stainless) exhaust pipes and paint. Recently got new (aftermarket) headlamps. Versatile split/folding back seat. Breezes through emissions testing. It’s still a nice roomy, shockingly comfortable, peppy (3.0 V6), efficient car (40+mpg hwy Imperial) that gets the job done. Another bonus is free replacements for the lifetime guarranteed Monroe shocks and struts.
We could afford something with a higher status image, and I fret about the car’s inferior crashworthyness, but the pros of keeping it outweigh those cons. Actually another problem is that aggressive drivers unleash their bully-boy behavior on cars like this. It never occurred to me that the Spirit has some cachet.
My ’84 SVO and triple white, manual trans ’90 Mustang GT convertible are keepers because I’m too poor to buy something recent with as much kick in the pants. Maybe they’ll be worth something more than a kick in the head in a couple decades although I’m going to clone the ’90 Anniversary convertible into a 7up tribute. Just need a few LX pieces as the seats and top are in good condition.
Hear, hear!
Almost bought my parents neighbor’s original ’86 SVO that he purchased new and obsessed over for the duration of ownership. He was on the Fox Mustang design team, and knew every last detail about the car.
Alas, the Gods of Torque won me over and I purchased a ’93 LX 5.0 coupe instead. This was in 2002, and I still have the LX. Of our three paid for cars, including a Legacy GT turbo wagon and a (gasp) Mercury Monterey minivan, the Mustang is the most reliable. Original, ice-cold A/C, everything works and it still hustles down the road.
Once again, a great Hammer Time article – this is one of the reasons I read The Truth About Cars.
My father really understood how to pick cars for the long term and even though I am much more an enthusiast than he was I still follow his logic. I think the Bonneville described above fits this pattern perfectly.
First, I never pick a keeper that is on the leading edge of technology. Sure, its nice to have all the bells and whistles, but the more complex things are the more prone they are to breakage. My father, for example, never owned a car with power windows and (unlike some of the cars I have owned) I never recall the window in one of his cars failing to open or close.
Second, pumped up engines and highly tuned components are more subject to breakage. Bigger, simpler engines that don’t have to be run as hard tend to last longer. The 3.8 in the Bonnie (or the 3.5 in my 300M) are big simple engines (by today’s standards) that no one would call high power, but they hang in there and get the job done over the long haul.
Third, when you choose a car for the long term, you need to have an eye towards the future. My big 300M seats my family of four with no problems – when my next child arrives in October of this year, the back seat will take that extra car seat in stride.
Four, a handsome car that doesn’t push the boundaries of style will be good looking years after it rolls off the show room floor – try not to follow the fad of the moment. What’s the point of keeping something for years if you don’t want to be seen in it?
I’ve been watching the industry-wide decontenting trend with trepidation for the past several years, and it seems clear that for brands previously known as good bets for keepers, that may possibly no longer be true. I’m thinking Toyota and Honda, mainly. At the same time, brands NOT known for reliable longevity (Ford in particular) seem to be turning out vehicles that are currently performing well in cost and convenience of ownership. My Ranger is bearing this out, certainly, at 141K. I think a low-spec Fusion with a 6-speed may be the 1998-2002 Accord of this decade.
Any bets as to what 2010-2012 cars will be considered the best keepers in 2020?
I’ll bite. I agree with you about the Fusion, base 4-cyl. I’m going to risk the 2011 Golf 2.5l (and perhaps the new 2012 Beetle 2.5l as well), the 2011 Honda Fit (and CR-V), and I’ll really go out on a limb and add the upcoming 2012 Soul 2.0l (I’m staying away from all DIG and turbo engines).
VWs as keepers? You must be joking.
I would buy the Honda, Toyota, or Nissan equivalent of anything with VW’s 2.5 liter engine–it sounds like it belongs in a tractor, is not powerful, and gets terrible gas mileage. To me, it ruins the vehicle it’s installed in, and you’re better off buying a transportation appliance. VW’s 2.0T, on the other hand, almost makes it worth putting up with the reliability woes and terrible dealer experience. Neither one would be a “keeper,” though.
Hard to say right now – many of the most fuel efficient engines are still fairly new so it remains to be seen how they will hold up over the long run. If gas prices keep going up, it may be too expensive to hang on to older models over the long haul, but I guess we’ll see…
I think most of the new hybrids and electrics are still too gimmicky and will probably be too costly to keep over the long run, also new technology will certainly make the hybrids/electrics that follow better all around cars.
In keeping with the spirit of the article, whatever the new keepers are, they will probably palin white-bread sedans like v-6 powered Chargers, Malibus and Fusions…
I didn’t see any Nissans on the list so I feel compelled to contribute.
I’m currently making the best out of my 2000 Maxima. Up to 160k now without much fuss. Replaced a front cat, coils and MAF–beyond that just brakes, tires, oil, and tranny fluid.
I really like the VQ engine; though I’m sure it’s down from its original HP spec, it’s still smooth and pulls strong. It requires little maintenance, though the premium fuel does sting.
Everything works as it is supposed to; a/c all power windows, etc.
Here’s hoping to crack 250k with the same experience!
My father in law recently sold me his version of a keeper. It is a 1968 Buick Sportwagon that he bought brand new in 1968. Just over 180,000 miles on it and in perfect condition. My longest keeper was a 1987 Honda Accord that my wife and I put 345,000 miles on in the 25 years we owned it. My current and hopefully last pickup truck is a 1993 Ford F250 with over 220,000 miles. Our 1999 Odyssey minivan has 205,000 miles. We just hate buying vehicles. In the past our philosophy has been to buy new vehicles and then drive them into the ground backed up by a rigorous and anal maintenance routine.
Times change, cars are ridiculously complicated now. After your factory warranty expires a new vehicle can be way too expensive to repair. A hard lesson I learned after putting two transmissions in our fine Odyssey. So when my wife got her current ride, a 2011 Accord EX, we leased it. Should be interesting to see how this works out.
My folks bought a new Galaxy silver 2001 Bonneville SE 3800 and still have it today and like it just as much now as they day they picked it up. It now has 120K miles and runs and drives brand new. Say what you want about how terrible the interior is but it has held up very well, the seats still look like new, nothing has fallen off, there are no real squeaks or rattles and literally everything still works as it did when new. Problem areas involved replacing the two rear wheel bearings and the intermediate steering shaft has been greased once and replaced with an updated unit that is still working smoothly today. Thats it other than routine service and wear items. Dad wants to keep it until 300K and judging by all the 3800 cars I see with that many miles I think he has himself a keeper.