Hey, remember when Porsche introduced the 959? Wasn’t that awesome? Yes, it was. It was awesome.
Remember when they brought out some wack-ass sedan at the same time that looked like a radiation-deformed Cold-War-era Tatra and made sure that they saturation-bombed the media with advertisements designed to make sure that every McMansion Mommy promptly earned a subsidized lease of one by agreeing to wear “something special” on the next few Monday nights? And remember when they decided not to make the 944 Turbo so they could focus on making that sedan?
No, because that didn’t happen.
This is 2012, however, and the Massive Marketing Machine That Is Porsche both giveth to, and taketh away from, the joys of its long-suffering enthusiast base.
Let’s start with the good part. K.C. Crain’s Only Chance To Avoid Poverty As An Adult Automotive News reports that Porsche is “considering whether to build Project 960, a Ferrari-fighting, two-seat, mid-engine coupe with a V8 biturbo and more than 600hp.” That would be really cool, guys. And it’s a nice gesture towards all of your high-net-worth customers, who are no doubt feeling a little bit annoyed that their 918 Spyders will contain more batteries and DC motors than Jenna Jameson’s licensed-product lineup.
Okay, good part’s over. Now it’s time for the bad part. “Also in discussion is a smaller version of the Panamera sedan, known internally as the Pajun.” Yes, by all means, let’s get Porsche in the 3-Series market. And the 1-Series market. They definitely need to be a full-line manufacturer. “Under its Strategy 2018 plan Porsche aims to sell 200,000 cars a year by 2018.” Hey, that’s one piece of disposable, plastic-water-pumper crap each year for, like, almost every air-cooled 911 that was ever made!
Finally, we come to the ugly part.
But Project 551, a small roadster, has been postponed. Its debut was envisioned for 2014. “It may take another generation of customers before a small roadster fits in with Porsche,” CEO Matthias Mueller said.
Well, sure, because
a pig-assed SUV fits in with Porsche, and a smaller pig-assed SUV fits in with Porsche, and a humpbacked deformed crapwagon of a 2002-era-interior technology 7-Series fits in with Porsche, and a 5-Series version of that fits in with Porsche, but AN AFFORDABLE SPORTING ROADSTER FOR PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO DRIVE AND WANT TO ENJOY SOMETHING VAGUELY RESEMBLING THE CARS YOUR COMPANY BUILT FOR THE FIRST FIFTY YEARS OF ITS GOD-DAMNED EXISTENCE COULD NEEEEVVVVVVAAAAARRR FIT IN WITH YOUR LICENSED CHINESE-MADE POLO SHIRT IMAGE COMPLETE WITH 200,000 CARS A YEAR THAT YOU ARE SLOUCHING TOWARDS LIKE A HELL-SPAWNED DEMON DETERMINED TO PERFORM THE “TEAM AMERICA” SEX SCENE WITH THE CORPSE OF FERRY PORSCHE IMAGE
I am going to throw up, I really am. I need something to stop this rising gorge of indignant vomit.
I uploaded that at 5MB size so you can expand it and really clean out your mind for a moment, if you need it. I would make some nasty comment about Porsche trying to become General Motors, but let’s face it: at least GM built the Solstice.
Porsche used to indeed be a sports car maker. Now, they make cars and SUV’s (chuckle) that elicits fits of wallet-ectomies in potential customer’s minds and billfolds.
Porsche ain’t the same Porsche of Weird Science fame. They’re Gucci, Prada, Tumi, etc. Porsche is a marketing company first in the same way that McDonald’s and Walgreen’s are real estate companies first.
Yeah! What he said!
Uhm… isn’t the Boxster a small roadster?
Indeed, and sales of a smaller (how much smaller could it be????), cheaper roadster would cannibalize Boxster sales.
In fact, it would make more sense for Porsche to just sell a decontented 4 banger Boxster/Cayman. The base Boxster is like 2800lbs and costs $45K… seems pretty affordable to me, for what you get, especially when you factor in inflation.
At the end of the day, Porsche is a business. And they still make sports cars. So what is JB crying about? Would he even buy this new sports car, NEW? Did he buy his Boxster new? For someone so invested in the brand of Porsche he doesn’t seem to be doing much to change their direction. So he really doesn’t have the room to complain this extensively or profusely.
sportyaccordy,
I think JB bought his lime green audi coupe brand new. I think that qualifies him as a potential customer. Plus, one great way to attract customers is to sell them a car with less depreciation due to it’s demand.
Porsche is dilutting it’s brand whether you agree to it or not. They are selling on their purist enthusiast image. They’re going to alienate the customer that isn’t spending time buying TUMI bags to hold their lap dog while wearing their Versace sunglasses.
Porsche’s brand image has been about vulgar excess since the late 70s with a racing program attached, just like BMW.
SUVs, sedans, and so on are the logical conclusion of playing out a brand, just like the Ed Hardy lighters you see on the counters at gas stations these days.
Pretty much my sentiments as well.
P simply isn’t organized to compete on price with Mazda. Their entire corporate culture is built around build to order type manufacturing in expensive Europe, which is inevitably going to result in higher prices than a more “traditional” mass manufacturing approach.
What irks me more than the failure of P to produce a 2500lb, $30000 midengine roadster with Boxster grade handling, is the failure of anyone else to do so. Kia? Hyundai? Honda? (the S2000 seems to have doen reasonably well.)
As for SUVs, the problem isn’t so much that P is selling one, but that the one they’re selling is quite some ways short of the kind of long travel, Paris-Dakar type thingy that would do the marque justice. Or at a minimum, be able to outrun a Ford pickup truck in places where an SUV makes any kind of sense whatsoever.
The problem with shrinking the Pan, is that the interior isn’t really any bigger than it needs to be for a sedan in the Pan’s price range. So, shrinking the car pretty much needs to focus on shrinking the outside/inside volume ratio, rendering the current car a bit superfluous.
Miata is still being sold and handles just as wonderfully as a Boxster (for 1/2 the price!). The S2000 was a wonderful roadster as well but Honda let it rot on the vine to win over new customers with its class leading hybrids that are out selling the Prius easily (Oh…wait, Honda’s hybrids suck and have never sold well and owners sue Honda b/c they don’t get near the mileage they are supposed).
Porsche is not diluting the brand. The 911 is still there. The Cayman/Boxster are “purer Porsches” than the 914/924/928 or even the Carrera GT. Panamera, Cayenne, honestly not even that bad aside from the goofy adherence to the frog face, and they create the profit pad that enables the low selling “pure Porsches”. So I don’t get what dude is angry about.
Especially when you consider the 914-6 cost $42K in today’s dollars, and Porsche prob couldn’t sell or make a profit on what would be a 914″-4″ replacement (which cost about $22K in its time). A $22K Porsche def would be brand dilution, no reason it couldn’t be a VW.
sporty accord? lol
Like I said, brand dilution is in the eye of the beholder. Either you view Porsche as an luxo car manufacturer or if you view it as the ultimate enthusiast brand.
I don’t see 911’s or GT’s driving around. I see 4 door whales swiming through suburbia. Where’s the meat? Sure they may exist, but they’re not representing the brand on the street. Hence the brand dilution. Or maybe I should watch more racing?
@stuki:
The only reason the Cayenne exists (Or the new Lamborghini, Maserati and Bentley SUVs for that matter) is because The ‘Luxury SUV’ is now Fashionable, and That is only because one of if not The largest auto markets in the world (The US) is making a killing selling them, and That is only because CAFE regulation murdered the profit-margins for large and large-engined family sedans in the US.
Guys- a base Boxster with basic options pushes $60K. For some reason the media always lists the MSRP price of about $49K and suggests that is the drive away price. Go to the Porsche website and build a Porsche and you will see how fast the price can increase. Porsche figures those potential customers interested in a smaller, cheaper Boxster will have to buy used.
Amen, Jack!
Wise men don’t bitch about the marketing machine.
Except as far as enthusiasts might egg on Wallet Man to write a check, Zuffenhausen has determined that we are benutzlos, valueless.
“Another generation of customers” WTF? I think this nothing but the marketing department calling the shots. A small entry level Porsche that would be Mustang/Camaro/Charger money? Why such a car would “dilute” the brand’s value.
the Solstice is an cartoon-ish abomination. they couldn’t even copy a miata correctly.
i guess now they just want to sell more rebadged VWs. hey, wait a second..
actually a lot of what you said about the Bentley Continental GT earlier this week can apply to Porsches now.
so i guess we should look out for a further strengthening of the market for the real, air-cooled 911s?
jco,
Have you driven a solstice? You must be on crack or couldn’t shift from 1st to 2nd gear to save your life.
speed isn’t the basis for comparison (if speed is your priority a miata probably isn’t your top choice). like has been pointed out, the miata has a usable trunk. it has a top simple and light enough to throw back from the drivers seat. you have to get out of the car to put down the top in the GM. it weighs roughly 500lbs more than a miata. the miata excels at being what it is: a light, crisp handling roadster. I’ll take lighter weight even if it
means a horsepower deficit.
sorry, I know it’s kinda toeing the TTAC line to hate on GM, but I just don’t think it was a very good or desirable car. and if you drove an S2000 and Solstice and chose the GM? the S2000 was still being made and the prices were close enough to cross-shop.
and as it relates to Jack’s editorial.. I’d choose the S2000 over a Boxster, no question.
Well as a 6’4″ guy I would say the reason to buy the solstice is simply I don’t fit in a Miata or s2000 (ive tried) GM knew there customer base and they built a car for that base and other then missing a cupholder and some space to pack the crap for a weekend they got it right
They weren’t trying to copy the Miata, they were trying to beat it. For a while they succeeded (in sales volume and SCCA races) and it would have been interesting to see the platform mature a few more years.
However, the Miata has a useable trunk with the top down. Another dismaying example of GM getting it almost perfect. Seriously, the useless trunk led me to a Miata.
I never examined the trunk space of the Solstice coupe. That would have been interesting.
My family’s solstice isn’t used as a grocery or golf bag hauler. And it does have sufficient leg room compared to the miata’s I’ve driven. I’m not saying the miata is inferior, I think you calling the solstice an abomination was out of line, and it appears you were just sippin’ on the hatorade.
I haven’t driven an S2000, I was just replying to your original commentary.
That’s GM. Other manufacturers take the long view when they enter a market segment where there is already established competition. They have the sense to realize that they will probably have to fiddle with the preliminary design quite a bit before it rises to the standard of the existing segment leader, and that they won’t make a lot of money for the first couple of years, but eventually, if they keep working at it, they might have a competitive product. But GM has the attention span of a pre-schooler. GM charges into the market segment like they own the world and rush-designs a product that is chock-full of bugs which they hope their massive advertising budget will make their customers overlook. That never works of course; when your new car breaks down ten times a year you don’t give a damn about the excellence of the ads. Then when they fail to make a gazillion bucks and run the competition off the field in the first two or three years after roll-out, the CEO just shrugs, dumps the product, and grunts out another million SUVs and pickup trucks.
Again, with all sincerity and no smoke-up-ass-blowing:
Bravo! [Enthusiastic GOLF clap]
Maybe Porsche will come out with a Mini/Fiatsler500 fighting small 5 door and 3 door hatchback soon, the Porsche Cómoda, and then move on to the wagon segment, with the Porsche ClarkGriswoldmerica.
Pimp my Panamera:
http://hotcarstv.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Dwight-Howards-Porsche-Panamera.jpg
Leaked – Porsche Puma City Car:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/assets/cms/baba2cce-9b8e-47cf-b5cf-0308efc68bc1/Large%20Image.jpg?p=090408_02:12
AND YOUR MAMA TOO!
Why is the rant? Porsche does not have a monopoly on cars. You can always buy the Miata or the 86. Do you have to have a Porsche badge? Maybe Porsche is right in that they can’t deliver enough value for the price to compete with those two.
Jack: Would it be fair to say that you are seriously pissed about this development? ;-)
Me, too. Another car for rich douchebags.
If I retire, I will seriously consider hunting down an air-cooled 911. Then I will have the time — if not the money — to care and feed it properly. But, in exchange for that, I will have a car that is fun to drive on real 2-lanes in my part of the world. I’ve actually spent more time driving a 356 Super 90, than a 911 and what one takes away from the experience, is the sheer “mechanicalness” of it all. There’s a little symphony going on all around you, and you’re in the fortunate position of being the conductor. The music will be great if you have the skills to conduct the symphony properly.
That’s just not a feeling that you get much any more. Instead, you get a padded capsule that has so much intelligence baked into it, that you can get away with pretending to be something you are not . . . and do it without killing yourself and a half-dozen unfortunate souls who happen to share the road with you at that moment when you imagine yourself taking on the ‘ring in Germany.
All the world is gaming douchebags:
$666 “Douche” Burger – most ‘disgusting’ burger ever – a hoax, but food cart owner reports interest
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/666-douche-burger-most-disgusting-burger-ever-hoax-food-cart-owner-reports-interest
DCB, if you would, please tell me where in the DC area the fun roads are? I regularly visit, and can only point to Ross Drive in Rock Creek Park as having any fun value at all. That fun being calmly obliterated by entitle cyclists blocking the road.
Drive out to Loudoun County. Great country roads plus mountains.
Go west, young man! As in “West Virginia,” western Montgomery County, Frederick, Loudon County, Va. Hard to do this with a GPS, but bring up Google Maps on your ‘puter or tablet . . . or be really retro and see if you can get some paper maps of Maryland or Virginia.
Try going the back roads to Point of Rocks, MD., or Lucketts, MD. or Burkitsville of “The Blair Witch Project” movie fame.
True, the cyclists take over River Road going west in Montgomery County, but if you get out near Poolesville, they thin out to a manageable number.
Zip down to Charlottesville, VA. Sample some wine, take VA33 to VA 20 to VA250 for a warm up. Sometimes the GW Parkway going north to 495 is all you get.
Project 551 selling price would be too low
The Boxster/Cayman is already pretty small and they aren’t exactly big sellers for Porsche.
Tha Macan (which is pretty much a lifted hatch) makes sense for Porsche as does a smaller 4-door/5-door than the Panamera.
For a moment there i thought that was Sorjo Rantas 901, he purchased it off the showroom floor at the 1964 Earls-Court Motorshow and he still owns it.
http://www.motor-klassik.de/bilder/porsche-901-im-fahrbericht-erste-liebe-der-aelteste-fahrbereite-elfer-3399345.html?fotoshow_item=15#fotoshow_item=0
Boo hoo. So Porsche’s image and product planning don’t jive with your idea of what they should be.
As Shakespeare wrote:
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
(Merchant of Venice)
At any rate, aren’t automotive bloggers, journalists and enthusiasts supposed to have opinions of what a myriad of things “should be” and discuss them when they fall woefully short in their opinions?
In fact, isn’t that the ENTIRE POINT of sites such as this?
Should Jack & gang talk about the weather instead?
They should change logo. I do not know about new look, but I have new name: Spirit of Margin
I have no doubt the reason why Porsche is willing to create the Pajun and go full-line, rather than build a small affordable roadster in-line with the Porsche brand, is due to VW’s extremely flexible vehicle platforms, cutting down R&D costs down significantly. Margin indeed!
Love the rant, Jack, although I’m one of those weirdos who actually likes the Panamera. I won’t adjust my price range to fit, but drove the V6 version and was very impressed. That they managed a car that size which is within 200 lbs of my 335 is a testament to Porsche, and in the end I’m willing to drive semi-ugly if it does other things very well (as proven by the 335). In general, however, it is disturbing to watch them lose their mojo. A $35k roadster or small coupe could be a great addition to their line, and far more interesting than a Cayenne-Junior.
Did we complain so much when BMW built the x5? Then, x3 now x1? Jack what is this ‘enthusiast base’ you mention? Did they own air coolers?
I don’t care what BMW does. They’ve always been a volume manufacturer, they’ve always chased numbers. Only in David E Davis Jr.’s mental advertising machine were they ever anything more than a halfway point between VW and Mercedes-Benz.
I *do* care what Porsche does. I have three Porsches, I have been a PCA member for going on a decade now, and I would very much like to purchase a new Porsche that is built as well as, say, a 1998 C2S without paying GT3RS pricing (and insurance rates) for it.
(Jack, at this point in your auto-journo career you might want to avoid any disparaging reference to DED,Jr.. You know, just between us…)
Have you bought any Porsches brand new though?
Jack count how many times you used “I” in your response. Well built? Think back to the 964 and no gasket between the ‘jug’ and the ‘case’. According to your logic low production=higher quality, just build sports cars to focus on one thing. I realize the 993 was(is) the penultimate air cooler, but that was 1998 man. Those were mechanical machines…
sudden1: Thanks for the advice but I ain’t worried.
sportyaccordy: (Edited my response because I didn’t like the way it came out on the page. Suffice it to say that I have the means to buy a new Porsche and have had those means for well over a decade.)
typ901: Why is it that the 2012 Corvette is better in every way than the 1998 Corvette, and the 2012 Ferraris are better in every way than the 1998 Ferraris, but somehow 1998 has to be some kind of mystical high-water point in Porsche history? Why can’t the new cars be better? Why do we have to make excuses for them. Yeah: gasketless heads, 993 valve carbon buildup issues, SC chain tensioners. I know the drill. None of those isssues equate to the M96 failure. Period, point blank.
Hi Jack,
Great Rant. One of the best I’ve read. I fully sympathize, having watched my beloved BMW’s erode into indistinguishable plastic oblivion over the past xxx years (you choose: 15?, 20?, 25?). Well, Porsche fans: join the club of betrayed loyalists.
Maybe the problem is us, and we are getting what we have “earned” over the years. Have we been buying sporty cars with RWD only? Have we sought out and insisted on getting real manual transmissions? Have we bugged our dealers to explain the weight distribution of their vehicles? Do we insist on a minimum value for skid-pad (>.90), or reasonable slalom results (>70 mph)?
Brand dilution in search of % Market Share and $$$ seems to afflict many manufacturers. Even Lamborghini is threatening to produce a really dumb SUV, the “Urus”. And Ferrari aficionados are still up in arms at the most ridiculous AWD semi-SUV ever: the hunchbacked F4.
But some people have remained focused and maintained their own special view of what a great car should be; and ironically, their cars are sold out months and often years in advance. McLaren, Pagani, and Koenigsegg are examples. Yet they are out of almost everyone’s league. But is that what it takes to “remain focused” and “pure” (sort of) nowadays? An exclusive vehicle that costs $250K to $1M, or more*?
*Yes, you can still buy an “inexpensive” Lamborghini Gallardo LP550-2, with only RWD, and a manual transmission, for about $190K.
———-
Ok, you want to buy a car for the brand, then whine when the company does its best to market to people who buy by brand.
Customer loyalty (indeed any loyalty to a corporation) is largely like the battered woman syndrome.
Jack
Between the 993 and now, Porsche went from a warehouse where white-coated techs assembled a few cars (only 5000 in 1991 – which led to MB 500Es wrenched by Porsche in 92-95 out of necessity), to a real factory with cost cutting and manufacturing efficiency moving front and center, along with unproven waterboxer engine designs.
I do miss my 1991 C4, despite the oil control problem between the heads and engine case (picked up by Porsche – engine out and o-ring groove machined in) and the pre-LUK dual mass flywheel that puked its hydraulic guts out on the clutch ($4500), plus the additional cooling update to the dual ignition to make sure that the two distributors remained somewhat synchronized (cheap, expensive only if the synch belt breaks before you upgrade).
Note to young’uns. A distributor was a paleolithic device to fire the spark plugs at the correct time and in correct order. Coil packs are swell.
Jack the only reason the M96 was/is worse is the quantity of units affected=higher production rates vs 901-964-993 engine related failures. I think you need to go buy a Singer 911 and stop the rant!
So you’re basically saying that he should go out and buy an old 911 and pay somebody to make it look like an older 911? That doesn’t seem like it will make porsche produce “better” cars.
MeaCulpa, it was a joke-and my agreeing that If Porsche’s were perfect or extreme enough then companies RUF would not exist! Porsche fell into the same trap that Toyota did…and Toyota taught them Kanzai in the early 1990’s …hmm maybe there is a correlation?
They can sell all the pimp-wagons they want if they would just plow the profits into a prototype sports car racing program. (Yes, yes, I know “it’s coming”.)
Overall Le Mans victories: Porsche 16, Audi 11
5 more years and we’ll have a new German hero!
(Yeah, as if Toyota is going to beat Audi in the 24 anytime soon. And don’t hold your breath for Peugeot to return.)
Sometimes i miss our Supreme Leader Farago and his iron fist.
“They definitely need to be a full-line manufacturer”
This is Volkswagen’s disease, and they’re hardly the only one afflicted. Everyone seems to think that every marque needs to compete in every segment, rather than letting a given marque specialize in what they do best.
So, as a result, you get stuff like the Saab 9-7x, VW Phaeton, Aston Cygnet, Hyundai Equus, Lexus HS, Buick Verano, etc, etc. Some brands seem able to avoid this trap (Ferrari comes to mind: they seem content to let Fiat, Alfa and Maserati do their dirty work) but most give in and do at least one stupid thing.
But VW and GM seem to make a habit of it.
But ferrari isn’t a car manufacturer, they are a purveyor of branded goods to people with limited (read NO) taste. As such they could just as well not build cars at all.
Ferrari is a car manufacturer if there ever was one.
Volkswagen is a people’s car/vehicle, if you recall.
Porsche is allegedly a “purist’s brand.”
It would make far more sense for Porsche to let VW come up and out with these vehicles exclusively, even if they lack the Porsche badge, lest that badge be sullied even more so.
These are the types of missteps that have done in brands time and time again.
It makes even less sense for Porsche to do this as the VW assimilation of Porsche is now complete, meaning there’s a ready-made-firewall in place to help preserve what’s left of Porsche’s dignity (this is just asinine):
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/0705/Volkswagen-completes-Porsche-takeover
Or better yet: have VW build that awesome little sports car they were showing on the Car Show Circuit– and offer it would BOTH Porsche AND VW badging (like the new Subie/Scion, or the original 914)
Porsche’s always been about money first and fans second, in the 80’s they pretty much tossed their integrity out with the 928 and de tuned 924s.
Do you mean to suggest that it’s possible (or inevitable) that if one were to even lightly track their ‘even more ultimate driving machine” and then have an IMS blow out, Porsche would void your warranty for abuse?
You know who was the man behind the 911? Do you know what car he wanted to kill and what car development he pushed through?
Fuhrmann loved the 928. Hell, I love the 928 too. The 928 was an honest product. Unlike the current 991, it didn’t pretend to honor the heritage. It was an attempt to move forward.
If the 928 had been easier to service and more fun to drive, I think they would have replaced the 911 no sweat and I’m not sure that it would have been the worst thing in the world.
I’d rather drive a 928GTS than a 991 “PORSCHE 911 CARRERA S” or whatever else they’ve put on the decklid.
@Jack Baruth
The myth himself! What an honor.
The 968 was pretty much the height of Porsche as a enthusiasts car, IMO of course, and the 928 s4 an autobahn warrior. Despite that they didn’t – and here I’m blaming US douche bags, that doesn’t know jack sh*t about the father land – seem gain traction in the market place. The ultimate downfall of all smaller and “cheaper” Porsches is probably that the 911 is a fundamentally flawed car, but, a hugely profitable one. So every smaller car – be it mid or front engined – must be artificially handicapped not to beat the living snot out of the 911. Think about a Cayman GT3RS, dried sumped with the ricer (sorry racer) aero pack and the sticky tiers and the weight saving and that 400 bhp+ engine, it would slaughter the 911 just as the 968 turbo slaughtered the 911 in its days.
Oh but I digress, the 911 is a phenomenal money maker, as long as that’s the case porsche will just keep on putting out cars that makes money without threatening it, and as long as people thing that a “proper” Porsche must have it’s boxer engine way out back and cost an arm and a leg the 911 won’t get much better, it will get softer and faster but not better.
True Jack. The 928 and 924 derivatives were the way forward, as evidenced by the way they’re now made as Aston-Martins, Ferraris, GT-Rs, Maseratis, and Corvettes. The 996, 997, and 991 are neo-classics with styling and layout dictated by marketing as modern legislation obsoleted the engine that gave the design its purpose.
All businesses seek growth, especially those who are public. Keep that share price up! If Porsche had stayed true to Ferdinand’s original vision and only built small sports cars, it likey would have gone out of business in the 1990s. In fact, it almost did with the 964 fiasco.
I remember in the 80’s when they trotted out another version of the 911 4 door. The new head came out, nixed the project, and stated that Porsche should not be interested in selling a huge volume of cars, becuase you shouldn’t have to wonder which one is your Porsche in a parking lot. I am paraphrasing and I am too lazy to look up the exact quote, and that was a lot of years ago before I sat under a giant RADAR for a living. But the piont was true then as it is now.
They were a niche car maker and design firm, and I wish they could have stayed that way. There was, D-Bag rep aside, a mystique to the brand. I also remember on a tour of the factory in the 90’s, the guide telling me that 75% of Porsche made were still on the road. He also claimed that while not as fast, their “entry level” cars such as the 914 and 924 actually made huge profits for the company. I don’t hate the Boxster, and hairdresser rep aside, it is a decent car that made a lot of money based on the msytique of a 911.
Normally I chuckle at Baruth rants, not just becuase they are funny. But this one also bothers me, not just becuase he is right, but becuase he is soooo right. Especially the bit about the suburbanites and the nightgown. I get “Oh I have one of those, but mine is an SUV.” Um…no, then you don’t have one of these.
Unfortuentely, its the same consumer machine that killed Elise. Drivers and enthusiasts are a dying breed and to car makers, almost useless. Becuase we fix our own stuff and buy cheap. This eveolution of Porsche is driven by a need to sell metal to stay in business.
I just wish they could have avioded that fate, becuase I am selfish and I want the old Porsche back.
This reminds me of what happened to my local gardening centre. It was a place where you could get high-quality, carefully nurtured plants and advice from people who knew their stuff. Recently, they completely revamped the business. Now they hardly sell plants; they do sell $350 chef’s knives, $2000 lawn chairs, and you can have a $40 lunch there.
They did this because if they didn’t someone else would have. Porsche looks at the world and sees that the largest growing demographic is the rich, not the just rich enough. So, they have to be there in all these markets before someone else eats their lunch. Porsche’s 3-series car will not be bought by enthusiasts, it will be bought as a high-school grad present by Panamera owners for their kids.
Agree 100% and I say that having owned two Porsches that I loved. Funny you mention Pontiac and the Solstice, Jack. I’ve always said that’s the car Porsche SHOULD have made instead of the Boxster.
With every market diluting product it inttroduces, Porsche becomes more of a mini-Audi. IOW a full product range premium car maker. The danger in this for Porsche is that, once Porsche is viewed as a premium car maker, it will no longer have its sports car niche to allow for some of its ridiculous pricing. Porsche is introducing competition that I’m not sure it is prepared to meet.
The paradox is that auto journalists are an integral part of maintaining the Porsche mystique by taking these cars to race tracks as if we all track our cars. But at some point, people are going to figure out that track times are meaningless. At that point, the emperor will have no clothes
This rant seems dangerously similar to one that might’ve been delivered with the arrival of the 914, 944, 924, 928, and 968.
What satisfaction do you get from playing armchair product development manager? Seems right up there with Playskool’s TSA Security Checkpoint Playset (look it up).
Is there a reasonably conceivable Porsche you want that you are currently deprived of?
Does the existence of a Porsche you dislike really cheapen the existence of the ones you do?
Yes.
I want a 911 engineered to the same standards of durability and serviceability as my 993. It doesn’t need to have any more features than that car has, and it doesn’t need to be much faster.
My 993 was $62,000 in 1995. That’s $82,000 now.
I am personally prepared to pay $82,000 for that car. I am not personally prepared to pay $82,000 for the current 991. I don’t like the way it looks, I don’t like the interior, I don’t like the monstrous proportions, and I am afraid of the fact that from what I hear the cars throw CEL codes continuously.
As noted elsewhere, I would REALLY like Porsche to do what GM has done with the Corvette: make it faster, more reliable, easier to service, and more fun to drive in the years since 1998, while holding the line on inflation-adjusted pricing. The current Corvette is smaller and lighter than the 1998 model. The current 911 is much larger than the 1998 model.
The only Porsche which currently interests me is the outgoing GT3, because it’s the only one with a proven engine/transmission combo and it’s the only one which holds its value. It costs $130,000, which is just silly money for middle-class people like myself. Despite what you hear on Reddit, being ready and willing to buy an $82,000 car doesn’t translate automatically into being ready and willing to spend $130,000. The problem is that Porsche doesn’t know that, either.
You position, while largely “like” based, is logically intact.
Why not a Cayman S or R or RS or whatever?
The only thing I hear on reddit is “FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU”, but I’ve actually long been curious about what constitutes purchase logic in the 50-300k range.
My car buying value calculator (even in new car only mode) saturates somewhere around 60-70k. I have a hard time understanding how one can rationally pay more for a car if they’re not super-duper wealthy.
Good comparison between Corvette and Porsche– and since both are affiliated with larger companies (GM and VW respectively) they can exist as niche vehicles, without the need for “volume”. My son recently sold his ’97 Vette; he owned a Boxster with the IMS-failure motor (which cured him of EVER wanting a Porsche again!); now he drives a Toyota.
When I glanced at the first photo, I hoped it was the new 981 Cayman. In order to get a V8 mid-engine Porker, I’ll bet it would be a lot cheaper to take a Gen1 Cayman, toss the engine and have Renegade Hybrids install a Chevy LS engine. Mmmmm, torque. (You could knock out the glue-in windows behind the doors and install 904 style scoops for cold air induction.)
A guy who tracks his was considering this after his engine done got blowed up a little, but $40K and several months to sort it was a little much.
True story here, JB. I recently spoke to a person who had recently picked up a used 4WD 911 with PDK so that that it would be usable in the Northeast and so his GF could also drive it. Is this a person you’d like to corner?
I really guts me how all these past specialist sports car makers are sacrificing their brands in the name of volume. I was going to make some humourous quip, but I’m really just too sad.
You’d think a Panamera owner would be content with the back of your car saying P O R S C H E in big clear letters, and “Panamera 4S” right below that.
You’d be wrong.
No folks, this gentleman I was driving behind on the way to work also had a vanity plate that read “4 SCHE.” YES WE GET IT. VERY CLEVER SIR.
Jack, isn’t it enough when Porsche cars handle best in class?
Boxter? Best handling roadster.
Panamera? Best handling large car.
Cayenne? Best handling SUV.
Macan? Likely the best handling CUV.
911? Claimed to have been the best handling sports car.
This requirement is fair enough to retain the Porsche DNA while still letting them make a lot of money. Which they should. I’m sure Porsche product planners discussed numerous development options at length, including your radical one, and have chosen the one being the best compromise.
The SUV/CUV segment quadrupled in Europe and is selling like crazy _anywhere_ around the world as well. How can you require any manufacturer NOT to take part in this? How rational is that? Especially when the segment is a perfect playing ground for premium and high profile vehicles.
I wonder to what level Porsche would have to stoop, to those who think it’s not managing to damage its brand image thus far, in order for even these stalwarts to concede it’s too low.
Maybe a minivan?
Ferrari seems to have survived their wagon (cough) Shooting Brake experiment, the FF.
Because, as with the Porsche models currently in production, it more or less meets the top of class production standards expected despite being an oddball within their product line.
I wish that car companies produced exciting, cheap products that were well engineered and manufactured and made enough profits to develop the next generation of well engineered and manufactured products across wide product lines, with excellent sports cars being a priority everywhere. As Porsche’s recent slurping-up by VW (and the general economy) point out, reality in economics is somewhat less rosy.
I hold out some hope that this is VW saying “You can launch one new mainline model in the next 2 years”, and the profits on a CUV launch exceeding those of the roadster several times. If it was an anticannibalization move then fie on you, Piech.
What’s wrong with a cold-war-era Tatra?
I’d love a T603.
(I also think the Panamera is handsome, and don’t care about Porsche purism.
I suspect Toucan is right, too.)
Finally, I got my SOG here! Well earned and long overdue!
Panamera is STUNNING. For some reasons, photos don’t give it justice (same with the new SL/SLK from Mercedes). In real world it appears so strong, dominating and capable.
Porsche needs to be at the top of the pack in terms of technology. At the end of the day their cars just do need to launch faster, turn tighter, put the power down the corner earlier and with more consistent confidence, deliver more feel. All this costs big bucks and would never be possible without focus on profits and ties with the VW.
The Jack’s plan would make them the Morgan from Zuffenhausen. Pure. But still using wood to make the chassis.
Meanwhile, Porsche is laughing at you “purists”…all the way to the bank. Get over it and move on.
Exactly. If you want an old air cooled Porsche, buy one, and brag about how you got one of the “last good ones”. Meanwhile folks who buy the new ones will get double the horsepower w/the same gas mileage, more usable space and “GT3 like handling in a base model” according to Chris Harris. Porsche had some bad years, but even still, there are a LOT of cars I would not get over a timebomb 996 C2. Plus like these guys said themselves in their Deadly Sins, Porsche has had a long storied history of unacceptable eff ups… even in its “golden eras”.
Porsche purists are taking out their frustrations by bidding up the prices of old 911s. An early ’70s long hood will bring $75,000 in junkyard condition now. I don’t know if I really feel sorry for the Porsche purist. Hate to say it but this couldn’t have happened to a nicer group of purists, LOL!
Well fucking said, sir.
Maybe if Macan and Pajun sales go well enough, maybe they can pick up where VW left off on the VW BlueSport roadster and toss us some scraps.
Porsche is becoming too much a part of VAG. It sort of reminds me of how pontiac started with many individual models, and slowly became a replica of chevrolet.
I think nearly everybody has missed the point on this.
To me it sounds like nothing more/less than Porsche will sell yet more high-margin-flavored-Volkswagens.
There’s nothing new under the sun.
caltemus above, has the right idea hinting at badge engineering.
Who knows if a Porsche-ised Jetta will sell though?
Will it be an answer to a question no one asked or will it do well?
I still think brand dilution can be a bigger problem, ultimately, for Porsche than most other car makers. Porsche charges a premium for its cars because it is Porsche and they can get away with it.
With brand dilution, the premium attached to the Porsche name will eventually wane because it will mean little more than another premium german car maker. That means, increasingly, Porsche will go head to head with BMW and Audi and its prices will have to be competitive.
All the Porsches I see on the road are Cayennes and Panameras. TONS of them.
Great post. But in my opinion Porsche established that things like branding and marketing are far more important than technological development when they decided to keep the 911 going instead of moving forward with the 928.
Today it all comes down to dividends. The passion for cars and the concept of engineering purety lives on among us, the enthusiats, and it’s almost nowhere else to be found. If marketing guys decide a Porsche-branded VW Up variant is a seller, then there’ll be one.
In the past we all saw Ferrari selling cars to fund its racing activities and Porsche racing to sell cars, but the truth is that what really matters is paying dividends. Ferrari races to promote the brand – and because it does make money out of F1; Porsche races because it could made it profitable by selling cars and technical support to privateers.
And that’s it. That is why there’ll be a Bentley SUV, and a Lamborghini SUV. And why the Alpine revival will never be more than just a Renault concept car. Sometimes I wonder if we are the last generation of true gearheads.
I still don’t get it. Dude owns one of those time bomb Porsches and loves it. The new Boxster is a great evolution of said car. 911 is true to form and good as well. All the other stuff is just money.
This is “internet auto line product planning” gone to a worrying extreme. Its not that serious. Porsche’s sports cars are still damn good, available however you want, no more expensive than they were in “the good old days” and not at all blunted by the existence of the Cayamejun. Seriously if the existence of a PAnamera makes you not want a 911 you have issues. And the Panamera, while garish, is not even that bad once you’re inside.
Porsche is in the business of making money. They are a boutique manufacturer with a carefully groomed name who cater to rich people who want to send a message.
I would love to own a Porch[sic], but none of their product base appeals to me.
The Boxters and Caymans are too small, too cramped, too devaluated as not to compete with the 911 bretheren.
The 911 has become a poster child of how ze Germans can nickel and dime you on options to the point that a car with an 80 grand MSRP can balloon to 140 grand. I like the new 911. I like the vomit lime gold color. I’d love to buy one, but would rather make house payments.
The Panamera is ugly. I don’t care how it drives. It’s ugly. I can’t see myself ever wanting one.
The Cayenne is ugly, it’s also an SUV from times where everyone drove SUVs and Hummers and Suburbans roamed the roads like retarded dinosaurs, and Shelly and Mitzi needed something to stand out at the local gated community trophy wife swinger get-togethers.
I don’t want another Porsche SUV. I think the idea of a German luxury crossover is stupid. Most German cars drive well and are pretty comfy. German luxury crossovers try to drive well, but 20 inch rims and “sport tuned suspension” leaves a stiff riding tall wagon no one can enjoy.
What I want is a reasonably (and the term is relative) priced Porsche sports car that is fun to drive and to own and costs less than 45 grand. A decontented 911 that is the Boxster/Cayman doesn’t count, and those tickle the price of the 911 if you get the shifter made out of Alligator foreskin.
Porsche knows they will sell more cars to Shelly and Mitzi, at greater cost, then to some guy with a bad back who just wants to have fun weekend drive with the missus and doesn’t care about image.
You are customer for the “pre-owned” department.
Porsche could make a water-cooled-flying-brake-wooden-wheeled SCHOOL BUS for all I care, as long as they keep doing what they do best … the 911 baby! Whatever pays the bills, who cares what they do outside of Zuffenhausen anyway? The Leipzig plant can crank out as many rebadged Tuaregs as it takes to get those groceries.
A small(er) cheap(er) mid-engine? Um, Jack, check your driveway, the Boxster *IS* the low end ;-} If you want something cheaper … perhaps a t-shirt?
Enthusiasts/Fans will tolerate non-sense like cayenne, panemara, pajun, cajun… as long as the Porsche delivers a proper 911.
And Jack, a proper 911 never meant a car with zero reliability issues; every 911 generation had its issues and yes aircooled Porsches are no exception (and I agree RMS failiures on M96 had superseded all of them, but realize at the same time Mezger engines used in applications like GT3s and Turbo’s had been more reliable then their predecessors)
What 911 means, at least for me, is a car that has finesse, precision/accuracy and has a fun-to-drive factor. A car that will keep you thinking about it when you return from a trip and park it in your garage. And Porsche will loose customers if a 911 does not deliver these attributes.
Now Jack, let us know if 991 does fit the bill or not. Did it loose its sports car DNA and is no longer a car you aspire based on the criteria I mentioned above? Does it not have the finesse and accuracy of a sports car? Has 996/997 generation triumphed it on the joy to drive factor? Tell us your impression, tell us what you think.
And I did not ask for your impression about its looks, dimensions, interior design, logo at the back and etc. These never defined the car did they?
So if your perception about the 991 is based on what you have heard from people and second hand readings about EMS, its looks and such while you haven’t spent any time driving or testing it (which for a PCA member who owns 3 cars from the company and has been a fan himself, I will find hard to believe)…
….than you might be the armchair engineer whose perceptions override the facts.
Respectfully
Timm
DAMMIT JACK, you just made me spend 30 minutes drewling over pics and stories on the iconic 959!
OK, Jack, enough of the subtlety.
Now tell us how you REALLY feel about Porsche’s product planning and development.
Actually, that rant was good…on a par with the Elliot Gould rant while taking his orals for his doctorate in Literature, and he finally stops trying to refuse to go along with the professor who insists that The Great Gatsby is really about a homosexual relationship.
And it blows the doors in on the rant in Network, where the lead yells “WE’RE MAD AS HELL AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT!”.
And although I am not a true believer aficionado of Porsche, I once (in my youth) thought that the 356 and 911 were the sweet spot of price vs. performance, across the universe of cars. And I haven’t thought much of any of them since.
And that rash of crankshaft eating that they became famous for in the late eighties or nineties kind of put the nail in the coffin for me. And the first Boxsters looked like they were designed to make the Miata look like a sleek racing machine. And the 914 – WTH was that all about?
So in the end, whether Porsche had a Solstice of its own or not is irrelevant…the quality and value propositions had long since been flushed down the drain in search of the holy ROI.
I can see why people still pay mad money for aging 911’s. They were the last car Porsche made with true stying and character, intellectually honest well-engineered cars.
I may have missed one after that, as I quit paying attention, but if I did, it hardly leapt out of the page.
But if Porsche sales volume continues to rise, you may be right about the change in suburban family dynamics in Porsche owning families. And if you are, it would be wise to buy stock in Victoria’s Secret before Wall Street notices that Porsche sales are a leading indicator of VS sales volumes. Perhaps not for the initial sales, in order for the car to be delivered, but certainly to make sure that the housewife in question is kept in the vehicle, and I use that word advisedly, as the monthly payments come due.
But maybe we can get Porsche to ditch the Pajun name, and go with Pa-Jr., pronounced “Padger”, rhymes with Badger of Breaking Bad fame.
He sort of represents the personality of the car. Perhaps he could be the spokesperson for a TV campaign.
“Badger here, for the Porsche Padger. Like me, a bit on the large size, but a friendly, likeable type, even if not too swift. And it’s never really dangerous, as long as it stays out of its own way. The Porsche Padger, the perfect car for our times.”
And don’t let me get started on an S version of a Porsche Aztek-like CUV. The S PazTek, the perfect way to move your groceries quickly across the parking lot.
I think it must have something to do with the glue that they use on the interiors of the new Porsches. I can’t imagine what else could cause such delusional forays as Porsche has launched for the last quarter of a century plus.
Keep moving…there’s nothing left to see here. The party ended years ago.
But seriously, I do feel sorry for you, having something you thought so highly of at one time come tumbling down all around you, a joke semblance of its once glorious past.
I remember the story of how a racing car once wouldn’t corner properly, and Dr. Ferry Porsche shocked all the other engineers in lab coats, by laying down on a creeper and crawling under the car to see where the interference was occurring. Engineers just didn’t do that at that time in Germany.
But Herr Dr. Porsche did…and that was what made his cars so good. It seems that none of that spirit is left in the organization. Just one huge marketing department, driving styling and product design, in a mad race to capture dollars, never mind how. Just find things people can be induced to spend money on, and slap the lettering on the back end.
And all the king’s horses, and all the king’s men,
Will not be able to put Humpty together again!