Up on Housing Project Hill
It’s either fortune or fame
You must pick up one or the other
Though neither of them are to be what they claim
Hey! Remember when Mercedes-Benzes didn’t depreciate? That’s a trick question: what actually happened in the Eighties to make them, along with Porsche 911s, such bulletproof “investments” was that they couldn’t fall in value any faster than the Carter-to-early-Reagan-era dollar. (According to this chart and my childhood memories, the worst of it came during the Carter Administration and the beginning of “Morning In America”.)
So let’s say you’re idly thumbing through the CarMax listings looking for CLS63 AMGs in a copper color. (Guilty as charged: they have one, and it’s more than I should spend, so I’m not going to add a garagemate for the 911 and Boxster any time soon.) Well, the CLS63 in the current body style is still expensive. Let’s drop down a bit to $59,998. What can we get for this money? Why, only the very worst and the very best Benzo you can buy in this country most of the time, in AMG trim.
No matter how many journalists return from the south of Spain singing the praises of the CLA45, we here at TTAC will likely remain unconvinced of the virtues of this over-pressurized Volkswagen Jetta-alike. As far as we can tell, the only real difference between this and a Stage ZZXX99-Something Mitsubishi Evo is that you can’t have the CLA with a stick-shift or a full helping of fast-and-furious street cred.
The CL63, on the other hand… well, sir, this is a proper motorcar. Ignore the fact that its predecessor, the strangely graceful and well-assembled C215 CL55, was the vehicle of choice for various disreputable idiots ranging from Cannonball-catheter crackpot Ed Bolian to, um, myself. Since the days of the 380SEC, the S-Class coupe has always struck just the right balance between conspicuous consumption and outrageous ostentation. There’s never been a reason to get one, which is why it’s so wonderful. Buying the coupe instead of the sedan costs you more up front, gets you less at trade-in, and frankly marks you as a bit of an odd bird. It’s a pure style move, and the CL63 makes it perfectly, from the wide, featureless grille up front that only the cognoscenti immediately recognize as the big coupe to the surprisingly subtle dropped tail and bland-but-tasteful lamps. In the middle, of course, you get the real reason any romantic buys the big Benz: it’s a pillarless coupe, known as a “hardtop” to most folks. The preferred coupe configuration in the pre-Colonnade era.
This car could ring the cash register for over $150K just four years ago, but now it’s yours for just over a third of that. Why would you even think of buying the CLA instead? Well, there’s the tiny matter of maintenance and repair. The old 380SEC was famous for durability: this 600,000-mile example isn’t even the most well-traveled 380SEC in the United States. The modern cars don’t have quite the same moxie, or so we’re told.
Which would you pick, dear reader? The car-of-the-moment CLA45, all FWD-based and humpback-whale-shaped? Or the elegant but potentially troublesome CL63? I’d go with the coupe, no questions asked. Except one, maybe: “The extended warranty is as good as they say, right?”
Everybody said they’d stand behind me, When the game got rough
But the joke was on me, There was nobody even there to call my bluff
I’m going back to Sam Anselmo I do believe Ive had enough-I always liked the Phil Lesh cover
As a former Leasee of a W221, let me just say that the reason you get the CL instead of the S550 is because you don’t want to be mistaken for a LIMO as you drive through Wall Street or around central park.
The reason you DON’T go with the CL is also simple: if you’re as tall as I am you can barely fit in it due to lack of headroom.
I liked the CL’s pillarless design more, but it just didn’t work out between us.
Nowadays, you see all the used 07 – 2012 S-classes everywhere. You can buy a W221 S-class with 40,000 miles for as little as $39,000 here at Major World or on Hillside Avenue (near Parson’s Blvd).
I feel sorry for the owners once they get a whiff of the W222’s upscale interior.
Yet another reason I would NEVER finance a German car to keep . One they change that style: It’S CHANGED and you just look old.
I will say this: The CL63 (and S63) came with a proper V8 – no turbos, and might end up being more reliable as the miles pile on. It’s a one of a kind exterior and some people might light it just enough to hold onto it indefinitely.
The problem is, these cars will literally cost you $1.80 per mile.
Interesting you should mention limos. Yesterday I was perusing the Wraith and Drophead Coupe, and thinking to myself that the reason one buys a full size personal luxury coupe is to avoid being mistaken for a livery driver.
It’d be embarrassing to drive a 3-6 year old Mercedes, since it looks like you’re trying to impress people but couldn’t afford the newer version which is much better in every single way. Trying makes you open to criticism.
It’s always a little sad, too, because onlookers remember how AWESOME and cutting-edge that old Mercedes used to be and contrast that to how they see it today. I always get a bit sad when I see a not-quite-well-maintained M5 or S550, with scratched paint, hazed headlights, worn leather, and wheels full of brake dust. Such a departure from what was commonly seen 5-6 years ago when those same cars were pristine and owned by people who cared. The shine of prestige wears off quick. It may also have to do with the fact that Mercedes changes it design language so drastically from one model to the next. One generation will be super swoopy and curvy, the next will be extremely upright and angular. The drastic switch between generations ensures the previous model looks dated compared to the new one.
I remember how elegant the 2003 E320’s interior was when it first came out. Now it looks (but doesn’t feel) like a Honda compared to the current E350s interior, which is absolutely excellent. The GL’s interior looks like the CLA and GLA’s new interior. The downmarket cars seem to adopt the design language of the more expensive cars.
The only way you get envy from me driving an old Mercedes (or any car) is if you keep it clean and well-maintained. By the way, I think CarMax has that MaxCare warranty or whatever that makes repairs (but not maintenance) pretty affordable. Jalopnik and Doug are doing articles on that.
Which is more embarrassing, driving a 3yo one or a reasonable condition 30yo one?
I think that different kinds of people buy a new Mercedes versus 4YO ones versus ones that qualify for classic plates.
I agree.
Sez you. I love the pre-facelifted W212.
Nothing screams “Hooptie” like a beat-up old luxury car.
But nothing screams “OLD MONEY” like a perfectly maintained just-like-new older luxury car. But that is probably my New England roots showing. The quintessential yacht club car here is an immaculate older Volvo or Mercedes. You spend the money once, and you maintain it forever. Maybe get a new one every 10-15 years and hand the old one down to the kids. And be slightly embarrassed about driving the new one, best to wait to buy the new one until just before the next generation comes out – musn’t be too ostentatious by having the latest and greatest.
I agree, which is why I qualified the query with “reasonable condition”.
I’d like to add in another factor, which is the design itself of the car. Some cars age a lot better than others. A 2004 Jaguar XJ looks really good these days. The current XJ will also probably age well. The 2004 S-Class…looks like crap. The 2007 S-Class and CL-Class will age well, though.
Your New England roots must be deep – that’s classic New England old money attitude.
I don’t know which part of NE you’re from but when I used to live in Beantown old cars were quite rare. Most have long succumbed to salted roads. Old Volvo was usually driven by some older guy who couldn’t afford a newer one and an old Mercedes was for a true connoisseur of such things. Richer people bought new, new and only brand new.
I think that old is better. A new one projects money, an older, well maintained one has character.
My wife has an ’88 560SL which gets quite a bit of attention, as well as sales inquiries.
I drove a 560SEC , 1988, for 17 years. I bought it used, from a friend when it was 3 years old with 21K on the odo. I don’t think that I spent $5K in maintenance over the whole period, including wear items like batteries, tires, radiator, water pump etc. WhenI sold it, the paint still looked great and the interior looked almost new. It was amazingly reliable. It just got old looking with its 15 inch rims.
By the way, I grew up near Parsons and Hillside in the 50’s, and the only foreign cars I ever saw we’re VWs and a Hillman Minx.
Nice.
#1. Some rich people keep the classic Mercedes instead of buying a brand new one because Classic Insurance is very cheap and they pinch pennies.
#2. Some people don’t care about new cars.
#3. Some people truly love their car enough to keep it and ride forever. If I had a Mclaren F1 I know I would.
#4. The “showoffs” are the one’s buying off-lease W221’s, right now, with high interest loans.
They are everywhere now – even as the W222 is taking over Livery and the rich neighborhoods.
According to my trusty Cars.com app, I can pick up a 2010 S550 for about 40k and after 20% down payment I can have a 5 year payment of only $615/month. What a steal!
Seriously, though, I test drove the excellent new Impala yesterday. I can get a 2LTZ (with the 3.6) for around 33.5 out the door after incentives. With the same 8 grand down payment it’s much more affordable, has a full warranty and won’t cost me a couple grand a year in upkeep.
All depends on the replacement costs. I had to replace the AMG 3.2 supercharged engine for $30,000. Luckily it was under warranty. I replaces with a 2004 CTS-V which costs much less to replace.
Jesus Christ!
My theory, and for many years it has held up, is that it’s much harder to hide defects in a higher mileage car. A car with 150K on the clock will frequently telegraph its intentions.
Please permit this ignorati a question:
Who on earth buys this class of car with 3+ years on it besides factory-trained mechanics with permission to use the shop on evenings/weekends?
I know nothing about these beyond what I read here, which makes it seem like history’s most egregious case of planned obsolescence.
Seriously curious…
Masochists with the means to finance a $60k car loan?
Well, I’ve known a couple of those; barely mid-managers whose only car knowledge is Big German = Respect, Glory and Promotional Fast Track. Anyone can guess how that turned out.
But there must be a non-moronic used market for them or Murilee would be constantly showing them in junkyards. I’m just buggered if I can figure out what that might be, given their notoriety for decrepitude.
Of course, there could also be that many slavish wannabees. I hope not.
They don’t show up much in junk yards because at prices upwards of 60k, not too many people buy them.
Well, they have to be somewhere. Are they so esteemed that people will continue to nurse them until they’re old enough to be trailered to shows?
I seriously don’t know and I don’t live where I’m likely to find out.
I once tried to figure out what happened to all of the old off-lease BMWs because, unlike everything else, you almost never see the old BMW body styles on the road.
A few google searches suggested that BMW exports off-lease cars and sells them in places like Russia, which will (apparently?) allow US-spec cars on the road.
It almost has to work this way, because it seems like this is only way you could serve the kind of American customer who will pay extra (for show), without going to the expense of out-engineering Toyota in long term ownership game (for value). The Americans who buy for show won’t settle for a last-generation model, and the Americans who buy for value won’t settle for expensive long-term maintenance. So, who’s left? A few enteusiasts like Jack, and aspiring oligarchs in the 3rd world.
At least that’s my intuition, backed up by a few Google searches, for whatever it’s worth….. Hopefully someone like pch101 can tell us what the data really says.
“I once tried to figure out what happened to all of the old off-lease BMWs because, unlike everything else, you almost never see the old BMW body styles on the road.”
Apparently they all end up in the SF Bay Area, because I see older BMWs everywhere. Even an E34 isn’t exactly rare.
Old BMWs were common enough near Boston too, though the harsher climate picked off the weak ones.
@Luke42
One 30 minute drive around Portland Maine and you will see examples of every BMW from the 80’s onward. The 70s cars are very rare, being not terribly rust resistant.
” I agree Luke42, otherwise whats is tangible benefit outside of snobbishness? Build quality, perhaps?”
Have you driven an E-Class and an Avalon? You hit the gas at a light and the Avalon axle hops so bad you think the front end is going to snap off. Sqeeeeeeel, bang, bang bang and then the traction control kicks in.
In an E-Class you whoosh forward with your dignity intact.
In this day in age the biggest difference between middle market and luxury is rear wheel drive.
The reputation is way overblown, with some caveats. The reality is that if you can comfortably afford a $60K car, you can afford to maintain it. People get into trouble when what they can really only afford is a $30K car under warranty, and they stretch themselves to buy the older used S-Class — God Forbid, borrowing money to do so. The REAL trouble begins when that person lets the car get decrepit because they can’t afford the maintenance, then some poor sucker who should know better buys it from a shady used car lot for $10K.
Ultimately, if you have any troubleshooting and wrench turning ability, these cars are not THAT bad to own. My own P38 Range Rover is an excellent example – I paid $5500 for a truck that cost $78K(!!) new back in ’01. I had to sort out a few things. CEL was on, SRS light was on, it had a hot start issue, the air suspension sagged if left standing for a few days, this and that. If I had taken it to the dealer, I don’t even want to contemplate how much it would have cost to sort out – $5K? $8K?. I did it all myself for ~$1000 and maybe a weekend’s worth of labor spread out over a few months. It is now a reliable, great to drive and very useful vehicle. That will need care and feeding, but likely nothing too onerous for a while. It’s not rocket science. If it costs me $1000 a year on average I am OK with that – that is little more than one payment on a new one, and I like the old ones FAR better. So much less nouveau riche.
If I pay $60k a car, it should cost *less* than a $30k car to drive and maintain.
Otherwise, what is that extra $30k for? You can get heated leather seats and woodgrain trim in an Avalon. Or a Camry. Or a Sienna.
Luke42,
You perfectly expressed exactly what puzzled me. I also thought that many or most must wind up outside developed countries.
But that just transfers their unreliability to people less equipped to deal with it.
My conclusion: Either they’re not as rapidly decrepit as anecdotally claimed, or Murilee would have to rack up a lot of FF miles to go photograph them.
I agree Luke42, otherwise whats is tangible benefit outside of snobbishness? Build quality, perhaps?
@Luke42
“If wishes were horses, dreamers would ride”. It has never, ever, ever, in the history of the automobile been the case that luxury cars were LESS expensive to maintain than ordinary cars.
Luxury automakers can charge more for parts just because of who they are – Cadillacs and Chevrolets have had many of the same parts for decades, do you think that the Cadillac dealer charges the same price? See VW, Audi, and Porsche for a European example. They charge more for labor too, in some cases. They have nicer facilities that likely have to be supported on smaller sales volume. That cappuccino machine in the waiting room and the fresh snacks did not come free. Neither does that loaner car that you can have.
Luxury cars are more complex. There is simply more to go wrong with a Lexus than a Corolla – it WILL be more expensive to maintain and repair. The tires are larger and higher performance, for example. In the case of the Germans, virtually every piece of high-tech gear that we take for granted in modern cars debuted on an S-class in the past. Now luxury cars get things like 22-way adjustable seats with massage, and night vision cameras to differentiate themselves. Some of that gear will trickle down to the top-spec versions of ordinary cars too.
Luxury cars DO have better build quality (usually) as well. Better corrosion protection, better leather, better plastics. They FEEL better. And a LOT of what you are paying for is feel. And then there are the little details that add up. I don’t really consider my 3-series to be a luxury car, but it is a “premium” car – there are soo many neat little engineering touches all over the car. Some “what where they smoking??” touches too – nothing is perfect. But it all adds up to a nicer ride and drive. It is not about heated seats and woodgrain trim. Though ultimately, going from Corolla to Camry to Avalon you pay a lot more as you go up the ladder, and each will be more expensive to maintain over the long haul too.
Ultimately, the “value” proposition is somewhere around a Camry. Nice enough comfortable transportation. Relatively cheap to buy, and cheap to run. As you pay more money, it all gets nicer, but not as fast as the money spent increases. As I have said on here many times before, if what makes a 3-series $15K more expensive than a Camry is not immediately apparent to you, spend the $15K on something that makes you happy, and drive the Camry. Personally, I would rather walk than own a Camry.
@Kenmore
Ultimately, most luxury cars ARE actually owned by people who can afford to maintain and repair them. And there are not that many sold to start with. I think people have unrealistic expectations as to what reliability is when talking about a high-performance complex car. An S-Class is not a Corolla, you can’t just put gas in it and change the oil once in a while. But when was the last time you saw one on the side of the road with the hood up? That fancy Airmatic suspension that lets the car float like a cloud and corner like a 2-ton Porsche IS going to require some expensive parts and labor at some point. But that doesn’t make it unreliable, parts wear out. You don’t notice it so much on a Corolla because they ride and drive like crap to start with – how could you even tell that the suspension is worn out?
A serious question to all of you guys – have you actually ever driven a truly expensive car for any distance? I know 28-cars-later likes old Volvos, but those are fancy tractors compared to a higher end Mercedes. Or a Camry for that matter. :-)
“But when was the last time you saw one on the side of the road with the hood up?”
The S-class or the Corolla?
Can’t say I’ve ever seen either. But I think I did see a Geo Prizm once, so maybe the MB was worth 6x the cost.
“… have you actually ever driven a truly expensive car for any distance?”
Well my Cadillac cost $60K when it was new in 1989…
Seriously though, I get what you are saying about things originally priced in S-class territory, but (and I am not even sure you are saying this) I don’t think it is reasonable for a $37K BMW or Audi to cause an owner any more pain than a $37K Dodge or Toyota or Kia.
There’s truth in that. One of the common questions is how we maintain that thing (560SL commented above).
1) It’s a fun car, used regularly, but NOT a daily driver. If it’s tied up, she’s got a old Grand Cherokee to use.
2) I do most of the light to mid level maintenance/service myself. If things get really deep (hasn’t happened yet) I have a couple of indie mechanics to turn to.
3) I buy parts off the internet. A window switch was quoted by MB dealer at $150 (even the guy at the parts counter was shocked). $20 including shipping online.
4) It’s an ’88. VASTLY simpler to maintain than anything made in the last 10-15 years.
Sample size of one here, but I have bought cars like this. I’m a former mechanic who still has enough ties to the industry to get discounted parts and free diagnosis from MB techs or independent shops. I also have a very small commute, so repairs and my overall variable cost base aren’t that much different from a normal car.
The thing about these cars is that if you can put the whole poseur aspect behind you is that they are still really nice cars for the money. That CL63 will always be nicer than that CLA — even if the infotainment etc… becomes dated. Better wood, semi-aniline leather, better fit and finish and a more competent chassis don’t become obsolete with time. If you can do your own work, these things do represent a huge value proposition.
^This. Let someone else take the depreciation hit and you can still get a nice car for a lot less money.
I’ve been scoping the Trader for a ’11ish E63 or E550….took one for a spin recently, spectacular cars.
“Who on earth buys this class of car with 3+ years on it besides factory-trained mechanics with permission to use the shop on evenings/weekends?”
Exactly why the depreciation is so steep.
@burgersandbeer
I think a bigger reason for the depreciation is that someone who can afford a $60K used car can obviously also afford a $60K new car. And $60K new cars are really nice. The folks who could buy a $120K+ car new have very little interest in buying used cars period, so the price has to fall hugely for these cars to find a secondary market.
As I said in a previous post – unreliability is very relative. That CL63 is highly unlikely to strand you somewhere. But at 100K miles it will probably need $5K+ in suspension work (if you can’t DIY), because parts wear out. Doesn’t make it unreliable.
Pretty sure the free market answers your question…used luxury cars don’t have a lot of value so the price comes down to where there are in fact people willing to buy them…so you can have one for 1/3 the price a few years old.
The other answer…about the reliability question, Vegas has the house edge on every game but people still go, so clearly there is no shortage of people willing to take a gamble.
I can’t see any reason to get either of them. Except maybe the CL to steal the drivetrain and put it in some car that would fit Norwegian roads…
A CLK63 ,on the other hand,could be tempting.
With the awesome Carmax extended warranty: I’d take the CL63 ALL DAY. Without the worries of an out-of-warranty German luxury car, the CL63 is leagues better than the CLA.
I lost appreciation for CarMax once I began reading the AutoCheck reports that came with each car. A good number of the vehicles have either been in accidents or are former rentals, but that’s not all. The AutoChecks only mention the Registration/Renewals, not the repairs, so that Accord I’m looking at could be on its fourth transmission and I don’t even know it. Plus, most of them are from the northeast and Florida, then purchased at auction (recent hurricane/road salt and saltwater, respectively).
However, as Doug DeMuro has pointed out, they’re a great place to buy a notoriously unreliable luxury car because of their warranty. That’s a benefit.
I love how it fascinates and surprises people that CARMAX buys from auctions. How else would they get cars? I’ve sold dozens wholesale to CARMAX at the block and, boy, do they pay ALL the money on certain units…
I don’t have any problem with buying from auctions; it’s just cars from the north and coastal areas I have problems with, for the reasons I listed. Most of the CarMax cars were owned in the north and coastal areas.
You mean the more populous areas of the country produces more used cars? Color me shocked!
I understand the trepidation about northeastern cars, but I never understood the ‘coastal’ issue with Florida cars. The effects of ambient salinity on the corrosion of Florida-owned cars is negligible compared to the corrosion of northern climes. Clearcoat damage, exterior rubber deterioration, and lovebug etching are far greater concerns; majority of any Florida-owned cars will have from fascia paintwork if the previous owner didn’t take proper care to remove lovebugs.
I’d still take a Florida car over any northern car; just the lower prices that usually come with them make me suspicious.
Such as?
Right now, PT Cruisers are hot with them, ostensibly for ValueMax inventory. I buy them for $3-4k, they buy them from me through the lane for $4-5.5k, they retail them for $7-9k – I’m shooting off of memory, so excuse me if I’m a little off on exact pricing.
I remember seeing them buy virtually EVERY SINGLE Captiva Sport our of the ADESA Sarasota GMAC/ALLY lane for all the money a few months ago. Good finance cars, especially on their sub/near-prime program.
That’s hilarious. We know Captiva is basically a turd and although I have no personal experience with PT Cruisers I personally have never encountered a zealous owner.
You know things are a bit awry when even a clean example PT Cruiser (MY08 MSRP 16-23 and mileage 21/26) with avg miles does 7-9 retail.
http://autos.aol.com/cars-Chrysler-PT+Cruiser-2008/
I don’t see why you’re singling out CarMax. Like others said, they get their vehicles from the same auctions that the other 99% of dealers use. In fact, I would actually prefer CarMax to Joe’s Used Cars simply because of the warranty and the choices they offer.
You say former rentals like it’s a negative trait. That may have been true 10 or 20 years ago when most rentals were Hyundai Accents or other similarly crappy cars, but now the industry has realized that good quality cars are important. Put a ex-rental next to an equivalent used trade-in and I will bet you that there will be very little difference in quality and condition. Also places like Enterprise and Avis are starting to turn over their inventory at a quicker pace, which means lots of low-mileage cars at the auctions. Dealers have been buying them up since lease returns have been pretty scarce for a while now, and the ones that do cross the block go for absurd amounts.
Maybe so, but my wife bought a ex rental when we were first dating, yet before we’d been together long enough for me to have any real input (what I said got ignored and I wasn’t there the day she bought it). She didn’t ask about the history of it and they didn’t tell. She cried when she shelled out $2,500 for a transmission rebuild, and it still makes me mad how she got screwed in general in that deal. I remember the tone of voice the service manager used when he said “did you know this had been a rental?”
Speaking of rentals, I was at my favorite garage this weekend getting an oil change and tire rotation and they had a white Fusion up on the lift. I commented that someone had themselves a fine looking car, and the service manager said “it’s an Enterprise rental.” Upon closer inspection, the very nicely designed wheels looked like they’d been chewed on by…well…an angry badger all around their rims. Lord only knows how the careless oaf behind the wheel did it. No sir, no ex-rentals for me. It’s my number one rule of used car buying.
I don’t think that much is built like the Galactica…..
I do have to agree with Saul though. I rent far too many cars for me to even considering buying one used. I take care and drive them like they were my own, but I do notice all of the foibles and damage foisted upon them by uncaring renters.
My most recent experience really sticks out in my mind. My colleague and I arrive late at night in KC and have an intermediate (think Corolla class) Hertz rental lined up. The agent asks if we’d like a Mazda5. For whatever reason they classify that as an intermediate. I jump at it as my daily is a Mazda5 and I really enjoy it. The only other vehicles they had on the lot I’d already driven numerous times this year and was nonplussed.
My colleague and start going over the car marking damage on the form and I nearly had to ask for a second one the damage was so numerous. I get in and fire it up only to see that it had 27k on the clock. Mine has 44k and is in far, FAR better shape than this sad thing.
The next we notice is the smell. What in gods name did they do to this poor thing? We drove the 45 minutes to downtown with the windows down hoping to help air it out. We did not want to swap rentals as we were dead tired and were only going to use the car for 1 day.
The driving experience was also eye opening. There was a nasty vibration in the steering wheel and when turning left you would hear a clunking noise. Again, my Mazda5 with 44k on the clock rides smooth as silk and makes no ungodly clunking noises either.
While there are some rentals out there that may be worthy of purchasing, I am not going to gamble with my money.
300CD.
If you were interested in the CLS here’ something you might want to consider
“Many state that the CLS actually started as the 1999 Dodge Charger concept which the Germans promptly killed in its own tracks to production; so they could use the 4-door coupe design language themselves on a Mercedes branded vehicle.” – Wikipedia
If this is true, go out and get the Italian owned based on the German CLS made in Canada all American Charger
Now that you’ve mentioned it and I Googled the concept car, I totally see the similarity. Amazing.
I don’t see much similarity between the concept and the production CLS. But what I do see is a lot of resemblance to the current Charger. It’s almost as though DaimlerChrysler deliberately subdued the horrid first-gen “New Charger” and then did what they’d been intending to do all along with the second-gen Charger. And if it weren’t for the fact that Chrysler’s ’05 philosophy was “More Crap For Your Buck”, I’d be convinced of that fact.
CL for sure. Though an interesting study would be to see which will depreciate faster.
Assuming I’m being forced to pick one to use as a daily driver, I’d have to go with the CLA simply for the lower cost of ownership (11 mpg on the CL) and likely fewer reliability issues. As a secondary car, CL63 obviously, but even that’s mostly useless since it has an automatic. Basically anything slightly sporty with a stick would be more fun.
I am not so sure about the CLA costing less to own. I don’t see that CL dropping into the 4 digit price range like a W220. But I bet the CLA will, eventually, when MB moves on to its next automotive equivalent of the Coach bag.
That’s hilarious a real used Mercedes for the price a fake new one. The $64,000 question in my mind is, does the CL63 come with any sort of [required] warranty for the price of entry?
If I was set up for it, I’d buy the CL and keep a small innocuous and reliable car as a beater/secondary ride such as my Saturn or a Corolla.
That’s what a surprising amount of people around here do and it honestly makes a ton of sense. Last big-repair-dollar Mercedes I sold was an ’04 CL55 AMG w/80k to a guy with a 5-Spd VUE. Beats the VUE as his commuter to Tampa and back, enjoyed the CL on the weekends and nice nights out.
Glad to see others had the same good idea.
One thing to consider about the 2010 CL63 is that it is the old NA motor and pre-facelift, which has hurt values quite a bit. The new TT 5.5 Liter is absolutely insane and the current standard TT4.6 Non-AMG motor is almost as fast as the previous 6.2, and with a tune will easily beat it.
I don’t have any firsthand knowledge on the insanity of the turbo 5.5L cars, but the AMG 6.2L is far from a shrinking violet. And for that matter neither was the supercharged V8 before that.
I would think Mercedes owners hate MB for their constant mid-generation facelifts which kill the resale value of their cars.
The japanese get a new generation 4-5 years which usually bears little resemblance to the prior generation. The german’s typically stick around 6-8 years per generation, which means a facelift keeps it feeling fresh. The recent facelift of the W212 E-Class had the greatest departure of any other, so I think it’s probably sticking out .
TTAC alum Doug Demuro has been chronicling his adventures taking Carmax to the cleaners after they were stupid enough to sell him an extended warranty on a used Range Rover that gave him something like 6 years and 60k miles of additional coverage and has advocated that Carmax is the place to go if you want to buy an unreliable used car. The CLS pictured would have 6 years and 80k miles of warranty coverage to convince Carmax to buy the car back from you. CLS all the way.
To play Devil’s Advocate a bit – as of the last posting I read, Doug still had not quite made his money back on that warranty. He probably will though. But hardly in catastrophic fashion. BUT, he also takes the truck exclusively to the Atlanta Land Rover dealership, and their parts and labor prices are on the high side of silly. Obviously, if I had a warranty I would too, but if he could turn a wrench himself occasionally or use a good independent shop, that warranty would probably not pay off even on a Range Rover. $3600 (IIRC what he paid) pays for a LOT of repairs, even on a Range Rover.
There is also the minor fact that by buying the truck from CarMax, he likely got well screwed on the price of it to start with.
@krhodes1: one of the perks of having a warranty, especially one as comprehensive as carmax’s is the comfort/convenience that comes from being able to have your car serviced at a dealer with nice perks in the waiting room, courtesy rides to places close by, and a loaner car if the car will be in for a while. I probably couldn’t own my BMW if I didn’t have a family fleet of cars to borrow from when it needs maintenance, since inevitably, if I’m gonna try to do it myself or get it to the local/indy mechanic, it won’t be done immediately, and realistically, working two jobs, I don’t have the ability to wait for it to be fixed. My parents had an e36 BMW covered by Carmax’s warranty, and even taking the car to Carmax’s repair people still saw it pay for itself many times over (and they only had like two years of coverage). Also, Carmax’s warranty won’t let you take the car to any indy shop. When I worked at Carmax, the shop had to offer a 6 month/6k mile warranty on their work, which neither of my preferred local indy shops do (ones’s a buddy of mine from the local BMW owner club and the other place is a 3 mont/3k warranty).
As far as Demuro goes, his latest post (5/19) indicated that the warranty had officially paid for itself:
http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/another-carmax-warranty-update-my-air-suspension-faile-1578548570
“For those of you keeping track, my overall warranty repair total is now up to $4,690.52, which means the $3,899 warranty has officially paid for itself. Oh, and here’s the kicker: I still have 50,000 miles or four-and-a-half years left before it expires.”
I have no doubt that if it only took a year and a half and 15k or so miles to pay for the warranty, he’ll do plenty more damage over the next 4 and a half/50k miles, even if he went to an indie shop. Hell, he did half the value of the warranty in the first 30 days.
As the saying goes, you have to pay to play. You can pay for a warranty and have the perks, or you can pay yourself and do it yourself. Pick your poison. I’m a cheap b@stard, I would just as soon spend the money on other things, like more cars.
Note that I have long said the real secret to happiness driving older out of warranty cars is having one more car than you need. Then you have the flexibility to let it sit while you figure things out. If you can’t do this, well, you are going to pay in other ways, either for warranties and/or paying someone else to fix the car. I find it useful to not have to compromise much on vehicle function – different cars for different uses, and they are all backups for each other.
I missed that post of DeMuro’s – good for him, he got value out of his warranty. Most people don’t, which is how they stay in business. It still costs silly money to go to the dealer with an out of warranty car. Ultimately I am running a similar experiment. I too have a Range Rover, a generation or two older than his. So while in some ways it is simpler, it is also older and has more than twice the miles on it. And the P38 is considered even LESS reliable than what he has. Mine has cost me ~$1000 to sort out, on top of a $5500 purchase price (I bought a whole Rover for only 1/2 again what his warranty cost). I think he paid around $40K for his plus the warranty. Will be interesting to see which of us spends more on repairs over the next few years. A pre-purchase inspection should have found the issues that DeMuro had in the first month – then the vendor should have been on the hook for them. Or he should have bought a different truck. Not really smart to just say “Oooh – that one’s pretty” and sign the papers.
The CL for sure.
The CLA has been shown many times and by many different reviewers to have sub-par build quality, and electrical issues.
Both are unreliable, but at least with the CL, you will have a a true Mercedes-Benz for your trouble. A smooth engine, a pillarless coup, rear wheel drive, and styling that is restrained and gimmick free.
The CLA just looks like it’s trying really hard …comes off looking like a mini Hyundai Sonata with a star on the front.
Really though, I wouldn’t buy either. I would march my behind down to the Dodge dealer and buy a Dodge Challenger. All of the upsides of a CL, with better reliability and a new car warranty for LESS.
This sums up my thoughts as well. I can’t get my head wrapped around paying $60k for any car, nevermind one without a warranty.
+1. Both of those cars are silly investments. I would take my money down to the Dodge store for a Charger RT Max AWD. 42,200, 4 thousand cash on the hood, give back 2 grand for bumper to bumper lifetime warranty. That was easy.
Better reliability, a new car warranty… and a much nicer exhaust note on the V8s.
Wait for the 2015 Challengers, the new interior is a big improvement. (Or wait until the first ’15s arrive at your dealer and make a killer deal on a leftover ’14 if you don’t mind the current car’s interior, that works too.)
I’ve spent a lot of time looking at Chrysler products lately. The LX architecture is a decade-plus old at this point, but those cars have evolved into very nice products. The 8 speed auto is a gem if you like that sort of thing and want a cruiser, smooth and quiet.
I’d take the CLA in this case. Replace CL63 with C63 (W204)….C63 all day long. That W204 series is proving to very robust and reliable. The CLA is a nice car….it’s a poverty spec chassis with a gutsy engine. Not worth the money, but it’s hardly “scary German luxury car” like the CL.
Warranty? are you guys paying for some sort of breakdown insurance? . To me a warranty means breakdowns caused by the manufacturers poor design,cost cutting etc will be rectified at their expense. Not breakdowns caused in the day to day driving and general wear and tear on a car .Cars wear,you can’t help that but some wear faster than others due to design . If you wanted a long life type car you bought a mercedes or a toyota in the past. Today you buy hyundai. Mercedes lost all credibility in the long life stakes when they tied up with Chrysler and let the fools from accounting dictate things like biodegradable wiring into the mix.
Those of us old enough to have bought W140’s etc new,then had things like power windows lock up or aircon fail every summer understand about Warranties and cost cutting failures on mercedes and today we are very loath to waste money buying a new one.
Easily the CL. They really aren’t THAT unreliable if you are comparing apples to apples. Sure they are compared to a Corolla, but then what isn’t? I’m not obsessed with how I look to other people (car haters who think everyone in a slightly used German is a poser) and despite the “unreliability”, these big old Benzes are everywhere, running in various states of repair or disrepair. They may have annoyances but they aren’t easy to kill.
I suppose its like anything else: At some point the low purchase price used outruns the well-advertised disabilities of buying a car like that used. Dollars and cents.
As with most things in life there is some truth here and some BS too. A “good” car is one you like to drive, be seen in and doesn’t spend a lot of time in the shop. Either one of these fit that bill for someone. I really get tired of hearing about electrical issues in Benzes. This is the fault of CR that dumps on things like excessive brake dust. I currently own a three cars and have owned 8 Benzes over the years. One had a window regulator failure under warranty. Only one. I have an ’06 CLS 500 that I bought in May of ’05. It has had NO electrical failure or issue to date. None. I have a ’12 Audi Q5 with 24k miles and it has had nothing but oil changes. Last Oct., I bought an ’07 Mini Cooper S with 60k on it. I had the 3 recalls performed on it at no cost and since then has had zero problems. I think 98% of the respondents here probably never owned a Benz and just like to carp about stuff.
+1. This.
….although, to quote my old man, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason – if they weren’t no one would understand them and they wouldn’t be used.
Option 3 – wait another year for the CL63 to drop down into the low 40s and pick up a low mileage one. It’s gonna keep dropping dude. If you buy now it’s you who’ll eat that 15k. Let some other sap do that.
There is no way in Hades I would spend 59 large on a CLA45 sorry. The most relevant comparison is the 2002 C32 AMG. It was all hyped up as the fastest Benz prodction sedan of all time and sold for a then mind numbing 55k. By 2007 you could get them all day long for 25 grand with low miles. The CLA will follow the same pattern, probably worse if reliability issues with the overblown motor come up.
It would be pretty retarded to take any one of these at $60k. For $62k (MSRP) you can have a brand new Infiniti Q70 5.6 V8.
That, my friend, is exactly what I did early last year (M56S), and I couldn’t be happier.
With a big NA V8, RWD, sport-tuned suspension, electronics out the wazoo, and beautiful design (eye of the beholder of course) coupled with Japanese-built Nissan reliability it was a “no brainer” for me, and the German stuff never really appeared on my radar (been down that road before and it’s just not worth the hassle to me, even WITH a warranty, because dealing with unexpected car problems is always an inconvenience and owning a “luxury” car should NOT be more of a pain in the ass than owning a Corolla).
I realize the Germans (E-class, 5-series, A6) might still be the “ultimate” in refinement and performance, but I really don’t care about image (the M is a bit of a “sleeper”, which is a quite desirable trait to me) and I’m certainly not going to track it on the Nurburgring, so I don’t care if an equivalent Benz or Bimmer happens to be a few seconds faster. Also, driving E-class or 5-series takes virtually NO imagination; in my area these cars are ubiquitous and are the Camrys and Accords of the slightly upscale “keep up with the Joneses” set.
Jack, $60k is more than I want to spend on either car. I might consider a lesser CL at a lower price point as a hobby car. To me, the CLA is not a real Mercedes Benz.
My answer is neither. If I was in the market for a Benz, I’d get a W111, not a German Camaro.
To the point that some people are making about “old vs. new”, I’d say sometimes the old product is genuinely superior to the new product, at least in ways that matter to the purchaser.
Although I’m not in the market for cars like a Mercedes, the last car they made that impressed me was the W126. While not exciting or cutting edge, it seemed solid as a rock and absolutely unflappable. I have no idea if they are ultimately utter piles of junk or if they are truly amazing cars as they seemed to be when new.
To make the “old vs. new” argument more personal, I own a 2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. To me it is a better vehicle than the current 2007+ Jeeps that replaced it. I prefer the smooth power delivery of the inline-6 and I like the tidier dimensions (especially width) of the older model. Finally, I like the more “classic” styling of the older model – I can see the clear lineage of the old CJ-5 and CJ-7 in my vehicle. The 2007+ vehicles got a more radical body change and that lineage is lost to me – it’s just too different. Considering that TJ Wranglers hold their value exceedingly well, other people must feel the same way I do.