Bob writes:
Sajeev,
Thanks for all the wasted ti…,er reading enjoyment you and TTAC provide. My Q has to do with “plan on keeping, or start looking for a replacement?”
Bought my ’93 SHO in 1996, a 5-sp w/28k miles. It just rolled over 140,000 (I’m an over-the-road truck driver). Has been a great, fun car. Only major problem was a radiator leak & attendant CPS failure.
Downers: Headliner and driver’s seat uph need replacing. Clearcoat peeling. Worried about parts avail, transmission (no problems so far, but “maintenance-free ATF?”). Still has original clutch. Car is 22 yrs old. Etc…
Upside: Just had front susp renewed, doesn’t burn oil, still drives great. Etc…
So: used Crown Vic, or used Miata, when the time comes?
Sorry this is so wordy/rambling, but hate to think of you & that cymbal.
Sajeev answers:
Oh yes! The Edelbrock cymbal is still on my drum rack, but I’ve had no time to “work” on it. And that’s thanks to folks like you!
You have a two-part question, and the first answer is you need a newer car. While an SHO has a tricky motor (timing belt and valve lash work every 60,000 miles IIRC), any old Taurus won’t be relaxing and reliable: it will always need work, even if it may never leave you stranded without days/weeks/months of advance notice. You’ll shell out big bucks on the paint and clutch alone.
About your next ride: some will consider the Miata vs. Crown Vic suggestion as insane, but I get it. The SHO is almost halfway between in size, number of cylinders, etc. And when you’ve already done the middle ground, it’s now time to go to the extreme!
Question is, which extreme?
I’d go for the Miata if you can keep the SHO around to carry people/cargo. Depending on where you live, a FWD sedan with a solid roof helps in bad rain/snow. If you go Crown Vic, the SHO is pointless. Which is a problem.
Think about it: the SHO is essentially worthless and the next owner is likely to kill it. I reckon it will be Chinese scrap metal less than a year after the sale. Not cool: cars with intrinsically fantastic yet obscure design like the Taurus SHO deserve to live. Having owned this car for almost 20 years now, are you dumb enough to see it my way? To restore this future classic?
If so, you will also be dumb enough to buy a Crown Vic to make a collection of cool yet understated American sedans! And for those that find this notion silly, I suggest watching this video about 10 times.
What was that about not wanting a collection of Ford sedans? #pantherlove
[Image: Shutterstock user Gengwit Wattakawigran]
Send your queries to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.
Buy the USED CROWN VICTORIA.
But please mod the exterior so when I’m on the highway I don’t think you’re a cop and I don’t have to slow down behind you until I get a better look at you…
…then return to 90 mph.
At _least_ 53% of the fun of driving a cop auto auction special is having folks slow down and get out of your way on the highway. My folks had a jellybean Impala for a few years that was just wonderful at >80mph. Everyone just got the fuck out of the way!
Niether, look into a used Boss or Shelby!
Crown Vics don’t offer a manual. If you enjoy driving, go for the Miata. As for restoring the SHO, it sounds like you got plenty of enjoyable service out of it. Who wants to live forever?
Mercury Marauder
The only real spiritual replacement for an SHO in a larger package.
This is an absolutely excellent suggestion! #pantherlove
That depends on where he lives. I would never own a Marauder, any GM B-Body, or most 90s GM/Ford full size SUVs (especially the 2 door GM versions) in the Detroit area. It would get stolen while parked, if the owner is lucky.
I won’t even drive my Lincoln into the city. No urban gentleman about town wants to be seen in a light blue C-Max.
+1. You might get it back, but it will be painted money green.
The horror….
I thought the C-Max belonged to your mom!
Nope. I drive a C-Max (thank you Ford for another $425) on a daily basis and my wife drives an MKT.
My mom drives an HHR with 175000 miles. I feel bad for her because I don’t even like sitting in the HHR. She wants an AWD Escape because she has to drive backroads in the winter.
She should get an AWD Escape, just make sure she gets one high enough up on the trim scale to get rid of those amber lower fog light things.
What means $425?
Ford the EPA fuel economy revisions. Between my former employer and FoMoCo, I’ve been paid $4500 in cash to drive a C-Max. Not rebates, checks sent to me.
Excellent! I have never received any checks for driving my M around. :(
Yeah, Its new for me, but I’ll happily take the money. Owning VWs and Audis usually had the opposite effect on my wallet.
On the Escape, I don’t think you have get an AWD version with those horrible amber colored fogs. The SE trim makes them normal.
According to the build feature on the site, you’re right. That $3k additional for the SE seems well worth it.
Marauders seem to be afflicted with the “I’ve got a B-body Fleetwood/Impala SS/Riviera Arrow and it’ll be worth $100,000 some day sopaymenowplease.”
I found my Dad a Marauder in last year with 41,000 miles on it reasonably priced for a then 10 year old, used car and the various issues that go with that. Drove it this weekend between Minneapolis and Cincinnati. Great highway car that covers miles fast and has surprising gas range. Not really a lot under the hood and tall gearing means it’s not really “fast”. Losing ability to be mistaken for a cop with all of the newer Taurus and Explorer police interceptors out there now, but the black color helps. Was feeling a bit of panther love myself after the trip… ;)
I want a Riviera “Silver Arrow” *so* badly…
Trade it for an SVT Contour
good suggestion, but I’ll bet he’d have a real hard time finding one that was loved. I imagine most are now washing machines or lawn mowers at this point.
When I go for a run, I run past a house which has TWO SVT Contours as DD vehicles! One in 90s green, and the other in silver. One seems to have some additional body kit work as well.
Contours are at the age now where this won’t really accomplish anything…He’ll have a slightly newer car that has similar issues to the SHO.
You might look at something similar in idea… the new Impala SS with the 6MT. A little rare, special order probably but philosophically cousins to the SHO.
I would for sure keep the SHO, you just don’t see them anymore and this car for sure will always have some level of collectibility. Don’t be afraid of some paint work, if the car pictured is your rig, it looks great in the photo.
If you are worried about the trans, keep an eye out for one to put in the garage as a spare.
miata or CV? Ummmm, me thinks you need to go drive both if you have not already. I know the miata gets high praise here, I just can’t bring myself to buy a car that I have to wear. But a CV? If your a Ford guy, why not go spend some time behind the wheel of a used mustang? I know of a used Boss 302 for sale and I am itching to take it for a ride even though my garage is full at present.
I disagree about keeping the SHO.
Why?
Head gasket sets are now unobtanium and NOS ones sell for top dollar on Ebay.
Sell it for 2-3x scrap value now, while it is still running.
No, no, no, Felpro still offers the head gaskets individually as well as a head set. Plus it is highly unlikely that it needs or will need head gaskets anytime soon. Those engines regularly went 200K or more and they did so with only regular maintenance, which admittedly is more than other US vehicles from the era what with the lack of hydraulic lifters.
Good point, the 96-99 V8 SHO’s hgs are doing for $377, the V6 doesn’t even have a listing at the moment.
Used Audi S4 – 2011 6 speed.
Will run rings around the SHO and 99% of the other cars on the road, can be had for decent $$$ now.
Room for 4 adults, decent luggage space, can play either sports sedan or luxury performance sedan, as the current need dictates.
That sounds a little out of his budget. The dude is running a 20+ year old SHO, and wants a little used Miata or a big used CV.
Why not something more in the middle like the storied V6 mustang… With the new one just around the corner, prices should be plummeting right?
I think this might be the best suggestion. In reality, it’s not much less usable than the CV, but always more usable than the Miata.
Depends on his budget. The V6 mustang will likely be a $400 payment assuming little downpayment. That $400 is money not being spent on SHO maintenance. If he could absorb both then perhaps this is a good suggestion.
Oh, I meant to add -used- Mustang. No need to get a brand new one!
Edit: $15K @ 3% over 48 months is $323, 60mo is $269; 7% is $359/295. Dealer will list a $15K Mustang for at least 20, between haggling and downpayment you should be in the 15K-17K range.
FWIW.. brand new 2014 Mustang V6 manuals are advertised for about $18k now, $19k and change with the premium package if you simply must have leather. It’s really a bargain.
What sort of black magic is this?
Base is $22050+dest, V6 Premium is 26+dest on Ford’s ws. Leather is not even offered in base (as usual) which means you’d have to step up to the 26K model to get any good options. Ford is offering 0% for 60 plus 1500 up to 3500 per their ws, so a stripper V6 manual could in theory be had for 18550+dest+tax, but nothing with options is going to touch this price.
aftermarket leather?
Possibly. I suppose it depends on your budget, but personally I’d rather have the factory leather and the other creature comforts for the 4K more. I figure a good leather kit will be $6-800 plus installation costs. Sure you’ll save $2-2.5K, but you’ll be missing the heated seats (although I suppose they could be MacGyvered in).
My bad, I got too excited by the bargain base prices and mixed up the blue ones I saw, one was base and a nearly identical ad photo from the same dealer was the premium model. So apparently the complete stripper is advertised for $18,335 and the Premium is $21,995, a bit more than I thought.
As for options, if the OP is looking at old Miatas and Panthers to replace an old SHO, then a brand new base model Mustang is already going to include more options than any of those cars will have. The base model is a bargain at under $19k, once you add $4k in useless toys it isn’t so much of a bargain anymore.
Stripper Mustang V6 (right around 300hp) for 19 and change prior to taxation is pretty impressive I must admit (I think they want 16 for a fricking Fiesta).
Let’s go to the tape:
MY13 Ford Mustang V6 “Coupe” (base, mostly autos)
07/10/14 EL PASO Regular $19,500 6,919 Above BLACK 6G A Yes
06/25/14 SF BAY Lease $18,700 10,435 Above BLACK 6G A Yes
07/09/14 NJ Regular $13,800 10,767 Below BLUE 6G A No
06/25/14 HOUSTON Regular $20,200 13,282 Above GREY 6G A Yes
07/16/14 DENVER Lease $14,200 16,697 Below WHITE 6G P No
07/01/14 CHICAGO Lease $17,300 17,559 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
07/16/14 SEATTLE Regular $17,900 17,942 Above BLUE 6G A Yes
07/17/14 TAMPA Regular $17,000 19,481 Avg WHITE 6G 6 Yes
07/10/14 SO CAL Lease $18,000 19,846 Above BLACK 6G A Yes
06/25/14 TAMPA Factory $16,000 20,724 Avg SILVR-UX 6G A Yes
06/25/14 DALLAS Regular $18,900 22,450 Above BLACK 6G A Yes
07/17/14 SO CAL Lease $13,600 23,266 Below GRAY 6G 6 No
07/09/14 SAN ANTO Lease $16,000 26,376 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
Even high miles/poor condition still pulls mid 14s:
07/16/14 NJ Regular $14,800 40,179 Below BLACK 6G 6 Yes
07/17/14 CHICAGO Regular $14,600 43,356 Below GREEN 6G M Yes
06/26/14 TX HOBBY Regular $14,900 46,246 Below WHITE 6G Yes
06/25/14 NY Lease $13,400 75,426 Below BLUE 6G 6 Yes
MY13 Ford Mustang V6 “Coupe Premium” (Premium package I suppose, mostly autos)
07/16/14 NASHVILL Lease $19,000 14,311 Above BLUE 6G A Yes
07/10/14 DETROIT Regular $16,900 15,850 Avg BLACK 6G A No
07/02/14 TX HOBBY Lease $19,800 16,550 Above DKBLACK 6G 6 Yes
07/03/14 SO CAL Lease $18,300 17,488 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes
07/17/14 TAMPA Regular $18,200 17,870 Avg RED 6G A Yes
07/09/14 TAMPA Lease $18,200 22,693 Avg GREY-UJ 6G A Yes
07/16/14 UTAH Lease $17,500 24,529 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
07/03/14 SO CAL Lease $17,700 28,830 Avg RED 6G A Yes
07/16/14 NASHVILL Lease $18,400 29,940 Avg HGPERFWH 6G A No
07/10/14 SO CAL Lease $17,800 30,113 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
06/24/14 RIVRSIDE Lease $17,000 30,399 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes
Again, high miles/poor condition they are pulling 15s on average.
06/27/14 NEVADA Lease $16,500 39,959 Avg WHITE 6G A Yes
07/17/14 FRDKBURG Lease $15,800 47,453 Below BLACK 6G A Yes
07/03/14 EL PASO Lease $15,000 47,840 Below SILVER 6G A Yes
07/17/14 SO CAL Lease $14,500 50,609 Below GREY 6G A Yes
I declare the 2014 Ford Mustang V6 to be Smooth Jimmy’s [resale] Lock of the Week.
The answer to “used Crown Vic vs. used Miata” is “buy both.” Both of them are reliable, easy to work on, cheap to buy, and cheap to own. If you install a trailer hitch and winter tires on the Crown Vic, you’ll have a pair of vehicles than can do just about anything.
Sajeev is correct in his thinking although I suppose it depends on how much work the SHO really needs. So unless you’re talking about something new(er), any Miata you buy is going to have its own needs. A needy SHO plus a new car with its own needs (basic as they may be) is a quick way to drain your checking account. Get the SHO in good mechanical order first and incrementally work at your own pace on the cosmetic stuff after you buy the Miata (rad, hoses, trans fluid, coolant, water pump, serp belt, timing belt if app, spark plugs, wires, head gaskets if app, proactively replace sensors, brakes, brake fluid/lines, exhaust/muffler etc). Last thing you want to happen is the SHO start acting up while the Miata is out for work/tires/inspection/conv roof etc. You can only afford so many crappy cars at one time, the trick is to buy the ones in the right condition and rotate their maintenance needs.
So for me its been:
08 GP: Coolant changed, plugs/wires, trans fluid at 68, shocks & struts at 76, brakes recently, recent body work. Next up: new oil, brake fluid, interior hose check, two new tires.
02 SL2: Coolant changed at 31. Next up: brakes/brake fluid, hose check, two new tires, proactive sensor replacement, trans fluid at 40.
93 240: Several sensors replaced, coolant, water pump, front belts, plugs/wires. Next up: rear shocks/struts, odo needs work again, need to figure out why mileage sucks so much.
Here’s when the SHO came onto my radar and looked cool:
Tim Allen drove one in The Santa Clause movie. It had a car phone, he drove it alone on the highway and quickly through town, and it looked aggressive in silver/black. I was 8 years old.
Pity most eight year olds would have gotten turned down on the credit application at your local Ford dealer. However I’m pretty sure today’s eight year olds would qualify for the loan. You’re pre-approved from pre-school to middle school!
I have excellent credit from my Play-Skool cashier job!
But interest rates in 94 were mighty high as I’ve heard.
Most notable movie Taurus for me was not a SHO at all.
Taurus wagon, Chevy Chase, “National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation”.
I’m going to have to say the Taurus Police Cars in the first Robocop were pretty cool too
I admit, I really don’t get this “panther love” stuff. Maybe because DC’s low-rent cab companies have been driving them for decades after the local police departments have worn them out.
As a 10 year former SHO owner, I would observe a couple of things: (1) the clutch on the car is weak and the OP is lucky to have kept it for 22 years. That’s an easy $1500 to replace. (2) what kind of frosted it for my car was that the plastic lining inside the fuel tank began flaking off, destroying the fuel pump. Replacing the fuel tank is expensive. (3) apart from the wonderful engine, the SHO is just an early 90’s Ford Taurus, with all of the weaknesses that implies.
I’m not sure what the OP’s automotive goals are: his suggested replacements for the SHO are worlds apart. If he wants a toy that’s fun to drive, then the Miata is as good as any and probably cheaper to own. If he wants transportation for his family that makes a comfortable slab cruiser, I would suggest an Avalon, which is probably leagues more reliable than a panther, uses less fuel and has more room inside and, frankly, is more comfortable. It lacks, however, that V-8 sound, even if the sound doesn’t signify much power or performance.
In reply to:
“(1) the clutch on the car is weak and the OP is lucky to have kept it for 22 years.”
From the article:
” (I’m an over-the-road truck driver)”
I have a hunch that his clutch skills would put us all to shame.
What are you talking about? Seasoned OTR drivers don’t even use the clutch except when starting or stopping. So to be more specific, it’s shifting skills . . .
Which would be how the clutch lasted for 22 years…
I like the Marauders and Police Interceptor Vics as much as the next guy.
Aside from a certain nostalgic greatness that one gets from the Panther Platformed cars, hoonage in a LTD Crown Vic is actually pretty uneventful.
In fact, my mom had an 85 LTD Vic in fantastic condition. Triple Navy in color w/ fantastic velour (I believe?) interior. The interior bits were metal and would get extremely hot to the touch (i.e., the large turn knob thingy for the driver’s side mirror, belt buckles).
I remember you really had to hold the accelerator pretty far down to maintain speeds of 75-80 mph. At those speeds, it may have been comfortable to be a passenger, but it was really quite a bit of work navigating that big bastard, similiar to my 89 Town Car. The handling was (as expected) nothing to write home about either.
I can still hear the alternator feedback through the crappy interior speakers like it was yesterday…
Trying out a boxy Marquis, the 5.0s okay around town but its clear that they were setup to get to 60 and just cruise there, they were engineered with 55 was the normal speed limit.
The handling was a joke though, my old air-cooled VWs felt more planted driving around the suburbs.
Hence the 55 mark squared off in its own little box on the speedo?
“Stay here at fifty-five, please”. -LTD Crown Victoria
It’s probably a good thing they didn’t come with a tachometer. Those old dogs would likely be revving pretty high at 75+ mph.
Yup, a lot of cars had that at the time, but only the Panthers feel like they were specifically ratio’d with that in mind.
Well that and for the transmission to at least last 120k.
Oh, the magical transmissions in the Panthers. I forgot about those mechanical wonders.
My folks bought a 20 foot ski boat to run around on a river here in St. Louis and consume large quantities of beer. To save a buck, instead of buying a truck or something else which could adequately pull a load- well… they used their ’85 relatively cherry LTD Vic.
After pulling the trailer/boat combo for about two seasons, the car suffered from overheating issues and, of course, the transmission gave.
Looking back, although the car was exceptionally clean and had low miles to boot, a Panther pulling a well-worn $3K ski boat was probably the epitome of South St. Louis “Hoosier”.
This concludes this week’s episode of “How To Quickly Kill Your LTD Crown Victoria”.
What gets me about all that is that I’m actually in South St. Louis atm.
The overheating issue was typical, either you’d pull something, or a $3 nylon throttle valve think would break in the transmission, requiring a re-build to fix. This is probably why they fill Taylors ju kyard in abundance.
Wouldn’t mind a late 90’s Vic if the price was right, too many sleezy dealers n “flippers” knocking their prices up.
Every car had that 55 highlight, it was federal law. Contemporaneous to the 85mph speedo laws.
Were I to get a brick vic it would be a police interceptor. Something cool about that howizontal speedometer that goes up to 140.
Please do not sell that SHO. I drove a 91+ from 1992-2002. I foolishly sold it in favor of a fancier sedan (which I later sold because I hate driving an automatic transmission car). I now drive a Pontiac G8 GXP 6M, which IMHO is the closest type to the SHO (even though the G8 is RWD), but oh how I miss that SHO- so much fun to hoon. I had the same issues with the CPS and radiator, but that engine (while tough to service) is bulletproof. As you know the online community is strong, and everybody seems to have a parts car for the picking. Aside from the engine nearly all trim pieces from a standard Taurus will fit.
A panther platform car serves it purposes, but it is too big and sloppy to replace that SHO.
Choose wisely.
Here I thought that “Maintenance Free” was a newer thing, is the transmission sealed or whats up with that?
I’d say ditch the SHO, hunt down a decent Accord V6 sedan or if you still want something different get a Volvo 850 wagon.
Don’t get a Miata, you’ll end up rgretting the sacrificed practicality of the SHO.
Don’t get a Panther, it’ll nickel and dime you all the same as the SHO but with less rewards for keeping it in shape.
I’d check out a previous gen Fusion Sport. High powered V6, 6-speed auto (if that’s okay), and a well tuned Ford suspension. I think they’ll be rare over time. I liked them but the wife didn’t. Oh well.
If you’re gonna go CD3, MY10-12 MKZephyr 3.5 is far superior. The CD3 Fusion used a lo-po circa 1996 Duratec 30 for its V6 option.
EDIT: You’re right, at some point Fusion was offered with the 3.5 although this is not mentioned on the main Fusion wiki page: “The 3.0L delivered ample power in the midsize sedan segment, however the Fusion later received the Duratec 35 V6 as a top-tier “Sport” option to remain competitive with larger V6 offerings in the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_%28Americas%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine#Duratec_30
The Fusion Sport was a notable exception of the Fusion using the Duratec30. It had the same engine as the MKZ. The same for the Edge Sport, which has the Duratec 37 that can be found in the MKX. The Explorer Sport also has the 3.5EB that was only available in the MKT/Flex, as far as CUVs go.
At the end of the day, I’d take the MKZ for similar money.
Generally speaking you’ll pay less for MKZ because its ironically worth less. Which model years was the 3.5 offered in Fusion?
MY11 Fusion Sedan Sport
6/25/14 NY Lease $11,400 22,902 Below GREY 6G A No
06/24/14 KC Lease $15,800 24,172 Above RED 6G A Yes
07/02/14 PITTSBGH Lease $13,600 24,641 Avg GREY 6G A Yes
07/09/14 NY Regular $15,300 24,988 Above WHITE 6G A Yes
07/16/14 NJ Lease $12,900 26,067 Avg DKBLACK 6G P Yes
07/17/14 CHICAGO Lease $11,200 30,159 Below MDGREY 8GT A Yes
07/02/14 PITTSBGH Lease $14,100 30,406 Avg DKBLACK 6G A Yes
07/16/14 NY Lease $13,200 31,410 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
06/24/14 ORLANDO Lease $14,000 31,410 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
10-12. The facelifted/refreshed first gen Fusion.
The 2010 refresh was actually very good. There were a ton of updates (the seats thank God), but Ford didn’t lose the plot. Dynamically I like the 2013+ Fusion better, but it traded some function (trunk opening/rear headroom) for style and I want a V6. The minor loss of function wouldn’t keep me from buying a Fusion, but I need an engine about the 2.0T.
The last gen Fusion also offered ample glass and flat parallel to ground beltline goodness. Yum.
The 2010-12 Fusion with the I4 will remain my goto used car recommendation for awhile.
We tested the 2012 I4 Fusion and loved everything about it except the F150 steering wheel and the auto transmission. I’ve never experienced a transmission so hesitant to downshift and the engine had zero power if it didn’t. Made driving a real chore, and it bummed me out because it killed the car for us.
They’ve had the transmissions reprogrammed since. The 6F35 has gotten better over time. I actually though it was an okay automatic transmission in the 2.0T Fusion. The beefed up 6F55 has been excellent in my MKT.
Hold on just a minute!
He needs a new car, because his was made in *gasp* 1993!?
It has low mileage, and there really isn’t anything wrong with it.
I have my 1995 LeSabre parked outside. I drive it to work 80 miles per day, and have done just fine. When my transmission went out (Car has 215k or so), I knew it was doing that for three months! When it did go, I still had second and drove it to the shop.
Point being- I’m the eighth owner of that car, it hasn’t had a nice, garage-queen life, and it does just fine.
Why would a well cared for car with fewer owners have any problems?
I’d spend some money on the car, and have it checked over by a couple of GOOD mechanics.
Then, I’d enjoy the car. And, maybe buy a Crown Vic and do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxkwK4L0zJY
The Church of 3800 approves of this message.
I agree!
People on here think that old cars are somehow less reliable just because of age. Sure, there could be a few electrical things that might need to be replaced, but there is no reason a low mileage older car is less reliable than a similar mileage newer model.
I agree too!
My dad comes over in his 2012 Avalon with 22k miles and is like “Oh this is very reliable.”
And I pull my Triumph Stag out of the garage, and it has 22k miles on it, and I’m like “Oh well this is very reliable too!”
keep your day job, your sarcasm isn’t quite good enough for stand up yet.
Sarcasm is free. I do this from a kind heart.
” there is no reason a low mileage older car is less reliable than a similar mileage newer model.”
Things like belts, hoses, tires and brakes degrade whether the car is driven or not. Up to date maintenance is key with older vehicles no matter the mileage.
The fact that maintenance will be more frequent on older cars than newer ones is basically a given.
Danio…do I strike you as that much of a moron? :)
Lets be realistic here, maintenance items aren’t part of the conversation here.
ANY car (and the majority if not all of the cars suggested on here) are in the same boat with regard to tire-brakes-hoses etc..
It wasn’t meant to be condescending.
Reliability depends on maintenance, so it is very much relevant to the conversation.
Um… buy brake pads? And some whitewalls if you’re going to cruise the miracle mile?
I did the front pads on my Buick this last weekend. The car wasn’t a wreck- they just wore out. Plus, a new set was only about $40. Try buying a car for that amount of money.
I agree with you agreeing with me.
My Buick has its personality traits- for example, the Security light has been on since I bought the car. The front cupholders are missing. A little paint flaked off the rear door.
These are fit and finish issues. They don’t affect how the car drives. That’s what matters.
Age will exact a toll on cars regardless of mileage, particularly rubber and plastic parts. Some people are okay with the idea of regularly budgeting weekends to hose and seal replacements, or scouting junkyards for trim pieces that aren’t broken yet. Other folks, not so much.
To a point, but if the car is cared for and driven once in a while it should be a non-issue. This guy obviously does both of these.
I have some prime examples of what I’m talking about. Right down to a dead reliable 74 Firebird that continues to start run and drive each and every year with nothing more than an oil change.
Pretty big difference in the maint. requirements on an old 3800 and the old SHO motor. While the engine in the SHO is perhaps the best looking motor ever dropped into a car, it is not friendly for the DIY mechanic and if you are not douing the work yourself on it you are going to need a pretty steep line of credit.
This is just more proof that the 3800 is the best 6 cylinder engine man has ever built!
Quick, somebody get me a supercharged Riviera! I’m starting to drool again…
This message has been approved by the Church of 3800. I’m a proud member of the H-Body Sect.
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I own many cars: 2001 Audi A6 (2.8), 1995 LeSabre (3800), 2000 Impala (3400), 1997 Ford E-350 (5.4), 1995 Ford F-150 (300), 1987 Chevrolet R-10 (305), 1989 New Yorker (Mitsubishi 3.0L).
Engine problems have been few and far between for me. I’ve heard the weak link on Tauruses is the transmission. But, I don’t know about the SHO engine.
Just buy a LeSabre???
@the church of 3800 (in general) it should have been awesome, they had enough time to work out the kinks.
Nobody +1’d the Miata except Sajeev.
I will +1 the Miata. If you can live with the small size.
It will be so much more fun and satisfying to drive than a panther.
Don’t get me wrong i like panther’s too.
If you get a 2001+ non-sport car you can even just put the top up / air or heat on and it will give you no more headache than the average Corolla or Protege.
It’s durable enough parts are cheap gas is good the internet tells you everything and I mean everything.
It’s just that it’s a teeny tiny super low can’t check your blindspot with top up (well could get a hardtop) Protege.
If you can really live with the size – get the Miata.
I have had three :-) I have done it as my only car but I was “upgrading” from a motorcycle so my expectations were in line with the 1993 I started with.
But – currently driving a 2002 Leather package (ie Sport but with normal springs and shocks) 90 minutes a day, both traffic and highway – nothing negative to say as a commuter. Put top up = quiet, air con or heat on, cruise on, done.
The first nice weather drive you won’t regret passing on the panther.
(I’d keep the SHO too, IMO a 2001 Miata and a SHO hobby car is perfect)
The NC Miata isn’t that small in comparison to the NA/NB model.
I’m to Miatas what Sajeev is to Panthers, and I endorse his answer.
I think every car enthusiast should consider owning a Miata at least for awhile at some point in their life. The NAs and NBs are nearing their price floor, so you can buy and sell without worry, they can be found coddled in middle-aged guys’ garages everywhere, maintenance is as cheap and simple as any modern(ish) car you’re likely to find, and the driving experience is just so pure. It’s a car you can cane even just going to the store for some milk, and people will barely notice, except for the fact that you grin like an idiot. Fiddle with the suspension a little, and it’ll grip like a little bastard in the curves in addition to handling amazingly.
I don’t find visibility with the top up to be a problem; the side mirrors are large and do a good job covering the “B pillar” area. Although you definitely won’t see past SUVs, I find the low height to be part of the experience, and personally get a kick out of being eye-level with the door handles of small sedans. Mine is lowered by just under 1″. On bad roads mine rattles and creaks like a wooden ship, but I’m also on springs that are double the stock rate. I find the ride livable. If your roads are better than mine (trust me, they are), you’ll find it fine on stock springs.
Quote from a recent passenger in mine after a short ride downtown: “Every time I get in your car, it’s like taking a ride in a roller coaster.”
My 90 rode like a go cart. The early 1.6 cars were “pure” for lack of a better word. I had an 04 Mazdaspeed version that rode better and was more comfortable (though I had to put NA seats in it so my head didn’t touch the top support). With the intake opened up it would haul. I always felt my 90 was more fun to drive though and kept it longer.
Keep the SHO and keep driving it (assuming you still love it)
Even though it needs work, almost any used car is going to also need work while you own it. I’ll bet you can make it like new for not much more than sales tax and maybe 1-2 months of car payments on something newer.
I personally couldn’t bear seeing something like that go for “salvage car” value. Unless you loathe it, I would at least keep it around as a spare weekend car.
That engine of yours in the SHO is made by Yamaha and it’s a great motor. It’s too bad Yamaha isn’t more involved in automobile manufacturing. A Yamaha built car sounds fantastic!
Didn’t it start life as a homely Vulcan 3.0 with Yamaha adding the magic intake and heads and the other goodies?
Yes, it is based on the Vulcan block and Yamaha did the heads and above. Yamaha likes to do heads but not blocks they did it for Toyota years before the deal with Ford.
Drive the SHO until it dies and then display its intake manifold as modern art.
Pro-tip. Once you’ve accomplished that, engine block + thick piece of glass = coffee table
You could keep the SHO running. It only has 140k and the maintenance costs are far less than a new car lease/payment. A new headliner can be installed for $100-150. Interesting factoid: The front seats used in the SHO are the same lumbar buckets as the MN-12 T-Bird SC. But if traded in a previous generation Fusion 2.5 6speed is a nice replacement or find one of the remaining Fusion 1.6 EcoBoost 6 speeds on the lot.
Either keep the SHO and fix the headliner / seat and ignore the paint, or dump it and replace it with another car and don’t look back.
Bingo. Make a decision and commit to it. I put a transmission in my 1995 LeSabre, because I love the car. The transmission was about the value of the car. If the engine were to blow tomorrow (Fortunately, 3800s are bulletproof!), I’ve committed to fixing it.
Do you want to keep this car for a few years or more? If so, fix it. If you want to let go, buy something that you’ll like.
Either way, make a choice, and stick with it.
Well i’ll add to the crazy talk by saying find a mint Tempo V6 and drop the SHO engine in.
Now, back to the real world. I love driving the SHO, but I despise any time I’ve spent under the hood of one. It’s hard to pin down a modern spiritual successor to this car (certainly nothing that has worn the SHO badge since). I can attest that the Miata is downright simple to work on. It also hits the sweet spot of being usable as a day to day car, provided you don’t need a back seat of course. The trunk is usable, even the early cars.
But there are compromises. Were I going to daily drive an NA or NB again I’d shell out the grand for a hardtop.
The Crown Vic is another animal. My buddy has the Panther Love. I don’t get it. If I were looking at something like that I think I’d go with a Fox Body T-Bird. Old, yes, but simple to work on. My flavor would be the 87-88 Turbo with a 5 Speed. The 2.3 Turbo has some power potential. They are comfy as well. An E30 BMW would work too but good luck finding a decent one.
If you were to go newish, perhaps a Mazdaspeed 3 or a Focus or Fiesta ST?
Nathan Wind would have never driven a Miata, just not enough room for his sideburns and ‘stache. Before he passed away, I’m sure he was driving a Crown Vic or a Marauder. #pantherlove