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Alphanumeric combinations never work as a remedy for lagging sales or poor brand image. Acura is still catching heat for abandoning Legend, Vigor and Integra. Nobody knows what a QX80, a Q70L or a Q50 is – and even though the whole “Q” structure was supposed to harken back to the flagship Q45, the Q40 is now a lame-duck G37 being sold as Infiniti’s entry-level product. At least until the Q30 arrives, and even then that’s a Mercedes-Benz CLA, which is…
The current Cadillac naming structure, which is a banal cipher of alphabetical combinations, is apparently not good enough, so adding a number after an arbitrary two-letter sequence will fix things. What won’t fix them? Revamping their too high prices, re-engineering the godawful CUE system, fixing the tiny backseat and the heinous gauge cluster on the ATS, which is the one part that literally stares the driver in the face at all times, but looks like it was harvested from a G-Body Buick Skylark.
The Cadillac name change is nothing more than re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. With sales slumping in a growing luxury market, bloated inventories, a failed push to expand in Europe (despite no strategy, no appropriate product and no diesel engines) and no discernible strategy beyond moving to pricey digs in Manhattan, Cadillac is the Sick Man of The Ren Cen. The name change reminds me of the old Jewish folk remedy where gravely ill children were called “Alter”, which means “old” in Yiddish, which would ostensibly make them older, allowing them to bypass typical childhood ailments that could cause death or serious incapacitation. It didn’t work in the shtetl, and it’s not going to work in 21st century America either.
Speaking of which, it’s also the Jewish New Year. According to the Bible, it’s the year 5775 – except in Cadillac’s new HQ, where it’s the year CT5765. Maybe that’s what they’ll call the new Escalade.
Ah, goyem – so much Jewish rambling!
Nobody answered my Ren Cen questions from the other day :(
I don’t know the percentage GM occupies in the RenCen, though with the addition of Blue Cross/Blue Shield in 2011, the complex is 96 percent occupied.
And yes, Marriott has a huge presence there; the RenCen occupies 73 floors beginning at Level 3, the Courtyard is on Level 1.
As for what you can do…
1) Dining, from McDonald’s and Starbucks, to Au Bon Pain and Andiamo Detroit Riverfront.
2) Shopping, from a suit at Jos A. Bank and a fine watch from Costa D’Oro Jewelers, to a case of Budweiser, some Trojans and a bottle of Aleve at CVS.
3) Play — to quote the RenCen site — including a four-screen movie theater, fitness center, and a showroom.
4) Meet; hold meetings at the conference center, the two Marriotts, or the GM Learning Center.
Finally, I can’t say about whether GM needed the office space or not, but there you go.
Why thank you. I didn’t realize it was such an extensive complex.
Good article, just you didn`t say that they are planning on calling the new top of the line sedan the CT6.
I wished they had decided on calling it a name, rather than something alpha numeric. I am surprised it is a 6 and not an 8 since it will be going up against the 7 series and A8.
ATS = CT2?, CTS = CT4, which is very close to a CTS4 for the existing 4 wheel drive version. Not a good choice of naming convention.
I was wondering about the 6 myself. My first thought was that it’ll have a V6 engine. Alternatively, it could mean 6 passenger, but I doubt GM will go back to front bench seats, especially in a “premium” car. I’m hoping the name CT6 is just the manufacturing code, and they’ll give it an actual name, like DeVille Fleetwood Brougham. Then again, before names were adopted, the top of the line Cadillac was the 60 series, so maybe De Nysschen wants to go back to 1950s nomenclature.
I wondered the same thing about the ATS, but it sounds like they aren’t planning on changing existing model names until they’re up for a re-design.
Couldn’t agree more that it’s a bad choice.
The thing that frustrates me the most about Cadillac is most of their problems are entirely voluntary.
They have a clean slate and backing from a huge company in some positive form of financial health. Why blow such an opportunity? This is Cadillac’s chance to turn things around and they seem EAGER to blow it. Anyone got any good conspiracy theories as to why GM continues to allow Cadillac to fail?
This constant hand wringing about Cadillac being a failure is getting a bit tiresome. They moved over 192k units in North America last year. That’s more than Acura, Audi and Infiniti not to mention minority players like Lincoln and Jaguar etc.
No they don’t move as many units as say BMW, Mercedes or Lexus, but a complete failure? C’mon.
It’s not a complete failure, no. But there is certainly a lack of pricing power, and the low volumes abroad don’t provide much opportunity to amortize its costs. “Challenged” might be a more accurate description.
Audi is ahead so far this year, and Acura is only behind by a few points.
That’s the problem in a nutshell. Cadillac is behind Audi in its own market. And it’s not like they are selling fewer more expensive cars. Cadillacs list for less, and they sell for even less than that.
Plus, Cadillac hardly sells any cars outside of the US, so 190K units is it.
I’ve said before that they are a small regional player, but realistically they aren’t in the game.
Something to think about: what if GM made Cadillac into a trim level? Something like AMG for the luxury set?
Like Lexus and Acura, Cadillac is just a brand under the umbrella of a larger corporation that happens to have a presence that’s strongest in North America. The product platforms aren’t and needn’t be exclusive to the brand and can be amortized under different brands throughout the globe and US. The concentration shouldn’t necessarily be how they can shove Cadillacs down Chinese or European throats, but how they can market the same platforms as Buicks, Holdens or what-have-you.
Danio, how dare you interrupt the Two Minutes’ Cadillac Hate with common sense?
Acura’s cars suck, and Acura as a brand isn’t really anything worth talking about. Infiniti’s CUVs are too hardcore, and de Nysschen did a number on their branding too. Audi’s cars are old, and they are just now getting into the CUV game on a serious level. And like someone else said, the US is not Audi’s only market.
Even if you deem Cadillac to be a success, with the ATS missing sales targets and needing incentives to move current volume, do you think this CTx name scheme will help or hurt? Do you think a Cadillac today is legitimately worth what an equivalent BMW or MB costs to the typical luxury buyer, and if so why aren’t folks actually willing to pay those prices?
Actually, C&D seems to indicate in their review of the new TLX that Acura seems to be back.
And considering that Acura cars retain their value at the top of their class, I’d say “suck” is really not indicated.
The TLX is a good Acura. But a good Acura is still a good ways behind the actual luxury competition. It’s in that no-man’s land that killed Saab and is giving Volvo a hard time.
Mind you, my next car will probably be a 1st gen TSX, simply because I am looking for a reliable ride with a little style and oomph, and a same year 4 banger Accord coupe costs about the same and will cost more to bring up to the TSX’s power levels. I am pretty sure Acura’s new buyers are no different- they basically want fancy Accords. That’s a much smaller market and lower target than a legit 3 series challenger. In the context of the 3/5 is where I am saying Acura sucks, not overall.
It’s all subjective, but whether I’m more correct or less correct, I’ve mercilessly thrashed Acura, Lincoln, Lexus, Cadillac, BMW (particularly for dumping the I6 as its base hallmark in NA, Does (ecoboost & PowerShift baaaad) and just about every other car company.
I’ve come around a bit on VW (the new Golf/Golf GTI seems like a step in the right direction), Lexus (I like the fact they’ve stuck with V6s as base motors and pumped up the suspension & handling & HP especially in the GS & IS F Types), and Chrysler/Dodge (the new 8 speed transmission paired sith the Pentastar, in solid vehicles like the Durango, 300, JGC – all good – Durangos and 300s are rigid as tanks, too); I even have high hopes for the 2015 Mustang (with V8 & manual) and like the interior!
No matter who you criticize, you will get criticism.
Some may even claim too much/too frequent criticism makes one impossible to please.
This is not true. Buyers forking over an a$$load of money have the right to demand excellence and reliability (and durability).
I’m Mr. P!ss & Vinegar, car salespeople loathe dealing with me (not really, since I already know exactly what I want and what the transaction price will be, with my check in hand, before I set foot in any dealership), but some us have to try to uphold what is a fading tradition of demanding VALUE in exchange for our money/labor/savings/time.
+1 deadweight
Though little things may just be passed off as nuisances, if you allow that to continuously happen, your not going to find anything available that isn’t crap.
I guess the over abundance of art majors can’t all work at McDonald’s, manufacturers must feel sorry enough to hire them to design the crap we get today, and thus where we are now. Products with added costs of being designed beyond functionality usually at the cost of quality.
While this is a tireless rant by DeadWeight I think is expectations are correct but also created by the fact that cars are better than ever and there is such stiff competition for your money.
5 plus years ago I would have blown off any American made car since most of them were junk and couldn’t hold a candle to any Asian (Japanese) or German car. Fast forward to the present and now you have Chrysler/Dodge that not only makes mega horse power driven cars but cars that get good MPG and that have 8 speed transmissions way before a Honda did. You also have Fords that don’t look like the vanilla wafers they used to be and now look like a poor mans Aston Martin. And now Americans have a premium brand in Buick that has made us question buying Acura or Lexus and we have a brand in Cadillac that not only puts out some rad cars with their V series but cars that have style and materials found in top ranked cars like Mercedes. And I haven’t even got into the Koreans that have really stepped upped their game in a very short period of time.
Point being with so many great choices picking the “right” car is harder than ever. It used to be “X” brand was the reliable brand and “Y” brand was the luxury brand, but a lot of this has changed. Now little things like a damped glove box compartment or 1-2 MPG points are helping us make our decisions. Reliability overall isn’t an issue since most cars will go at least 100,000 miles bare minimum, so now we focus on performance. 0-60 time are important but to a greater degree steering and feel have taken over and components of car buying.
So where does it stop? I think a lot of what we see as a great car has come from the Germans since they have great fit and finish, good performance and feel, and have a nameplate that really resonates with the public BUT not everyone will truly appreciate or understand RWD or needs 300+ HP or cares if the car comes with a stick. Point being all this I am paying “x” for a car that means I get to strip it of all its worth is pointless. There isn’t a car out there that isn’t drive able, it’s just our standards have greatly increased
I don’t know of a universe in which the QX60 could be considered “hardcore.” It’s the purest mall cruiser in the entire luxury world.
I agree. A course Cadillac was a little to eager and optimistic with their inventory projections and that is one reason there is a ton of stock left but also I think people are catching on to Cadillac’s terrible CUE system, reliability, and pricing. You can play the conceptualized in Nuremberg and made to compete with the top Germans all you want but in the end Cadillac is a bit overpriced when people can easily rationalize spending the same or less money on a BMW or Mercedes.
I also agree Cadillac shouldn’t fall into totally re branding their cars with alphanumeric names and even higher price tags but just stick to the basics. One of the biggest misconceptions of luxury is size. Cadillac has taken on very European proportions in their cars, especially with the ATS which is suppose to compete with the 3 series. BUT for me size is luxury and if I can’t fit in the back seat what kind of luxury is that? As American’s bigger is better. Cadillac do YOU and stop bench marking the Germans
I don’t know how successful your brand really is when you have to pay people $100 to come test drive your cars and you think moving your company headquarters to NYC is going to solve all your problems.
Not only voluntary but on cars like the ATS rather easily addressed.
They’ve built a stretched ATS for the Chinese market, so the platform and tooling exists. The gauge cluster could be addressed so feckin’ easily, it is stunning. On one hand a longer model is just certification away – on the other it is just the will to go, yup, the cluster does suck, here is one worthy of the product.
Heck given the larger back seat and possible some trunk benefits, they could likely hold the line on price, position it as we are giving you more for the same price. Enjoy.
Profit.
I can’t wait for the CT6-V.
What would that be, though? The CT Fifty-Six, the CT Six-Five, or the CT Six Vee (as in vaticide).
CTfitty
CTftfy (#de Nysschen)
With the almost universal rejection of this trial balloon, I hope someone at GM comes to their senses and stops this renaming before it ever appears on a trunk lid.
The rejection is mostly online. De Nysschen may be able to “login”, but many of the top people in GM probably don’t even know what the internet is. Besides, they know their jobs depend on negotiating the internal politics of the company, not responding to the public. Plus, they’re smarter than you or me.
No one was able to save Infiniti.
Canadian Tire Six?
Hi, long time reader first time contributor.
I just wanna ask, doesn’t Lexus already have the CT200h? Correct me if I am mistaken but does the “CT” stand for Concrete Truck?
In my 10+ years in the mud, I’ve never heard a cement truck called a “CT”. My friend always referred to his religious high school girlfriend as a CT though.
Muttering “CT200h…?” Johan promptly puts palm to forehead…
Looks for gun to shoot self in foot.
Oops. Foot already bleeding.
It was the MGB GT V8 that made me laugh. Still, I don’t care what you call the car, as long as I can debadge it.
I once saw a 1980 Dodge Omni with a twin oval BMW grille installed, but debadging today’s Cadillac front ends would be even less successful.
TTAC Cadillac Clickbait Checklist:
1) Mock the headquarters move…check.
2) Bring up Infiniti…check.
3) Bring up CUE and the gauge cluster in the ATS YET AGAIN…check.
4) Hints of Cadillac deathwatch…check.
5) Mock alphanumeric model names…check.
As much as TTAC would like another GM deathwatch (or another GM brand deathwatch), Cadillac’s not dying anytime soon. GM has invested way too much money in brand-specific hardware and platforms to let that happen. Buick is NOT a viable brand for GM to play in the premium leagues with.
And by the way, Infiniti global sales hit a record in 2014…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/07/11/denysschen-moves-again-leaving-infiniti-could-cadillac-be-next/
As for Cadillac, we’ll see where things go. But the reality is that with product planning being what it is, stuff like revamped CUE systems or a lengthened ATS won’t happen for quite some time, guaranteeing TTAC happy clickbaiting for the foreseeable future.
You forgot Lincoln Horseless Carriage & Coach Company, Acura Beaks, VW reliability, and a slew of other topics, Mike.
And you forgot to tell us how bad your ATS rental was, DW… :)
Seriously, how often do you see articles on any of the items you mention on this site? I haven’t seen an article about how bad Acura’s front ends look, or how unreliable VWs are, in quite some time. Aside from the review of the MKC the other day, Lincoln hasn’t appeared much on the site either. But an informal count of Cadillac articles in September alone reveals about a dozen, all of which inevitably lead to the usual spleen-venting about the sad, sad joke that is Cadillac…except that it isn’t a sad, sad joke at all. This brand moved just under 200,000 cars last year (as Danio points out above). That’s not chicken feed.
I think it’s time for the site to find different clickbait.
I think there needs to be a new term for “opinions that upset me” rather than “clickbait”.
Clickbait would be “Johan De Nysschen Announces New Move For Cadillac…You Won’t Believe What Happens Next!” or “Ten Places Cadillac Could Have Moved Their HQ To.”
Editorials that express an opinion that incite a negative emotional reaction are not the same thing. If we really wanted to do clickbait, there are a million other things that are far less time consuming and more effective at generating “clicks” than sitting down, thinking up an editorial, writing it, editing it and publishing it.
Right on Derek. FreedMike, pay attention and learn something please.
Derek, you have to admit the sheer volume of Cadillac hate stories this week is a bit much. I think there’s been one a day for the entire week so far.
I think you are wrong FreedMike. Cadillac has been appearing of late because Cadillac has been doing newsworthy things. Lincoln for exmple has been quiescent while I don’t know the last time Acura did anything. There are news cycles and TTAC pretty accurately reflects that. Expect a lot of Paris Salon coverage the next few days and as I don’t think Cadillac has anything for Paris, they will fade from the news…
Agreed, Marcelo, I think Cadillac has been doing newsworthy things lately. Since the beginning of September, I count four newsworthy items specifically about the brand, and about a dozen articles:
1) Autonomous driving (9/8/14)
2) The HQ move (9/16, 9/23, 9/24)
3) The new RWD model (9/19, 9/20)
4) Additional crossovers (9/22)
Look at how many comments the HQ move posts got…most mocking the news. The move is also mentioned in two general “editorial” articles Derek wrote today and yesterday.
As someone who graduated with a degree in journalism, I’d say this is a bit of over-coverage. I get the reason for it – we all have bills to pay. But I didn’t see this kind of thing going on during the previous “administration.”
Again, as I said to Derek: take my comments as you will. I care about the site, so I comment on what I see. If I didn’t care, I’d just do a MacArthur and fade away… :)
FreedMike, sincerely, I disagree. Over coverage is a reflection of real interest. Derek’s editorials are well thought out and reflect his point of view, which I don’t necessarily agree. You read the comments, I read the comments, some I agree, most I disagree. Some strike me as needing a response as they are interesting, others because they are foolish, while some are so short sighted and behind the times they don’t even merit a response. Like you I think Danio is a good barometer as he seems to strike a balance between the Cadillac of old that is thankfully going away and the new Cadillac still going through labor.
Just a pointer, if you had not used the word click baiting and had instead said over coverage, it would have been conductive to a higher quality dialogue.
And yet you left two comments…
Three.
Only thing worse than click bait are people who acknowledge it, claim to despise it, and then proceed to feed and legitimize it anyway.
Well, Sportyaccordy, the alternative is to not say anything. I speak my mind. You don’t have to agree with what I say.
Same applies to myself and anyone else who disagrees with you.
Just seems bizarre to feed the beast you demonize. You don’t want negative Caddy click bait yet you are in every negative Caddy click bait article playing the fanboy 3-2 zone defense. It’s not like the moves Caddy is making are above criticism- do you see this CTx name scheme helping at all? What value is Caddy providing to the market by eliminating any differentiating characteristics from Germans it had?
Sportyaccordy, I don’t want clickbait (or over-coverage, as Marcelo would say) on ANY topic that’s basically been talked to death like this one has. We all know all the failings of Cadillac – they’ve been hashed out on this site in painful, repeated detail.
The short wheelbase of the ATS…the lousy gauge clusters…the nomenclature…the badge (amazed that didn’t get mentioned)…the HQ move…DeNysschen…the XTS…and on and on and on.
I call ’em like I see ’em.
FreedMike! The badge was discussed! I seemed to be one of the few that agreed that that wreath had to go. All this attention is indicative, shows Cadillac has a future. You hardly knock what doesn’t move you, and moving people is what gets sales nowadays.
Derek:
And if I have to click to comment, I will.
I count about a dozen Cadillac articles so far this month. You had two about the same topic (the headquarters move) on subsequent days. Has any other luxury brand had this much coverage? If so, I don’t see it…and the reason why Cadillac appears so much on this site is obvious. It’s prime clickbait. You inevitably get scores of spleen-venting posts about how bad the brand is, which is probably a leftover from the GM deathwatch days, and butthurt from people who wanted to see GM go down the drain. The topic has a built in audience.
Don’t get me wrong: I know TTAC has bills to pay. But I don’t think the site will succeed in the long run if all it offers is silly clickbait like this.
My two cents’ worth; take it or leave it.
As Marcelo said, they’re in the news because there is news about Cadillac. Just like MQB was in the news in 2012, and fuel cell cars were in the news a few months ago and GM’s recalls were in the news earlier this year. There’s a common thread among all these stories: they’re timely and relevant.
Again, you fail to understand what clickbait is, things like slideshows, top 10 lists and others which are meant to generate the maximum amount of clicks with a minimal amount of effort. An editorial is about as far as one can get from that. Much like your accusations about my “misleading” Lotus article (where you accused me of withholding information that was in the headline of an article) I can’t tell if you’re being obtuse or you misunderstand the nature of your own argument.
Derek, I respectfully disagree. You don’t need to run articles with titillating titles or content to go after clicks. I’d argue the whole topic of GM and Cadillac have outsized impact with your readership, many (if not most) of whom clearly have an axe to grind against GM (or argue against the axe-grinders), and faithfully vent their spleens on every article about the company. The result is big click numbers, as far as I can tell.
In this context, I’d say repeatedly running articles about Cadillac to a readership like this may not be clickbait in the classic sense, but that’s the result nonetheless.
Why keep mentioning the the HQ move otherwise? It was the topic of three separate articles this month (wouldn’t one have been enough?), with lots of responses, mostly mocking the move. And it’s mentioned again in this article, and one yesterday. Should it shock me that all the articles got a big response from the readership?
I get the economic reasons for this, but part of me feels like this plays the B&B for suckers. We’re Pavlov’s Dog, and GM is the buzzer.
I do appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you in any case. If I didn’t care about the site, I wouldn’t be commenting. And perhaps the “clickbait” adjective was the wrong one to use…if offense was given, I apologize. Hopefully you have a clearer picture of my argument.
The new TTAC administration literally saved TTACs life, Mike, whether you or I like the new direction or not.
I like it, even though there are often now (different) things I could (and usually do!) complain about.
Page views and comments haven’t been this high since Farago’s prime.
I like TTAC b/c it’s critical, not fawning, and skeptical, not lapdog.
I can get lapdog/fawning anywhere/everywhere else #TonySwan
If I don’t like a headline or opinion I throw a metaphorical paperweight at the author (which TTAC allows waaay more than most free places).
I love me some Hooniverse, Curbside Classic, and MotolQ too.
“How can you be so obtuse?”
God I love that movie ! goon have to watch it tonight.
“… many (if not most) of whom clearly have an axe to grind against GM (or argue against the axe-grinders)”
Yes, I hate GM and Cadillac so much that I own two Cadillacs right now and have owned around 25 GM cars in my life.
I still agree with everything Derek wrote.
Nah FreedMike, not at all. Derek has reviewed favorably a Cadillac, I support the new direction wholeheartedly. It’s just some of the commentariat that have problems recognizing the world moves on. And they, my friend, do not reflect TTAC’s position at all. Position which, BTW, has never been monolitical and will never be as there are all sorts of writers and enthusiasts for all sorts of cars on TTAC, and that is and has always been TTAC’s strength.
Except that they’re launching a longer ATS in China within the next two years, which would make a great replacement for the current ATS in America and thus silence one of the major criticisms…
I dunno, it makes perfect sense to me. People don’t like the room in the current ATS? Release the one with more rear legroom from China, it’s the same god damned car aside from wheelbase so it’s not like they’d have trouble getting it certified.
But I’m not an auto industry executive with a six-figure salary who gets to decide how cars turn out.
I’ve got absolutely no clue how this will work out. What I do know is that just because you don’t know the name doesn’t mean you can’t find out and subsequently buy the car.
Let me offer some experiences from my own life. My wife is not a car enthusiast. She knows the various symbols, for the most part, but differentiating between different models is not her forte. The same goes for other people I know who aren’t enthusiasts.
That’s OK. There’s no law that states you must know the nomenclature of this car before you buy. You can go online. I believe big G will help you find pictures of that nice car you saw while stopped at a red light.
You can also go to the dealer where you can not only see the car (and find out what it’s called) but touch it, sit in it, drive it, and do whatever else your heart desires (of course there are limits so don’t get too freaky).
For Cadillac specifically, the old names do nothing for me but remind me of the bad old days of Cadillac. While I think new names are a good thing I’m not sold on the alpha-numerics. That’s OK. I don’t need to be.
I’d say its a bit too early to say whether Infiniti’s name change has helped or hurt. It’s a long game type of thing involving other markets. Time will indeed tell but we all know a name, even one’s that’s easily remembered, does not a good car make.
Has Mr. De Nysschen made missteps? I’m sure he has. You don’t accomplish what he has without making a few. But who would I give the benefit of the doubt? Johan and his track record or the various and sundry neck beards who know everything and yet nothing?
!,000,000 upvotes. Well stated!
After reading TTAC’s “Cadillac Moving Headquarters To NYC,” I expressed surprise that no one (among the “B&B”) had brought up the lame “deck chairs on the Titanic” cliché. But here, two days later, Managing Editor Derek uses it himself!
Shouldn’t this rant have been labeled an editorial? And what new insight, exactly, does it add over yesterday’s rant, “Meet The New Boss, Same As The Old Boss”?
For the record, I think the new naming convention is idiotic. The CTS has improved steadily for three generations, and now De Nysschen wants to rename it for the fourth?
I was really hopeful Johan would have learned from Infiniti, and would have been given at Least some help. He has a short but absolutely terrible track record working with luxury car makers. I hear about the possibility for a traditional cadillac and I couldn’t help but get giddy we were finally going to restore a fabled brand. This guy has made more poor decisions in a month than most make in a number of years.
These vehicles are priced horribly out of the realm of reality, lack the quality to compete with lower priced vehicles, represent European brands from 20 years ago, and he says keep trucking. There going to move the headquarters to one of the most close minded cities in the world, there’s no reality to working in a place where crime, poverty, and lies rule the day, and rather than being frowned upon are ignored as another average day(Detroit aint much better obviously). The naming system is a cherry on the cake for showing just how incompetent this fool is. Your in charge of a brand with extreme potential and hordes of funding to back every initiative you want, and instead of taking the brand upmarket you give the vehicles names no better than the serial number on my air compressors motor.
New York is a closed minded city? Really? One of the true global cities where the crosswinds of politics, culture, academia and economics collide, mingle and mesh, determining what most of the world will look like a while later (depending on how close you are to those aforementioned crosswinds)? A city that can only be rivaled by Tokyo, London, Hong Kong and nowadays possibly Frankfurt and Los Angeles?
Have you ever been to New York?
It’s disgusting, even if I’m trying to stay in the touristy/nice area. People are rude and unwilling to offer help unless they see money. And the way much policy in the world goes, yes I can definitely see how said policy is abound.
Lots of ideas and people may come together, but whether these people are willing to learn from each other is the question.
Always feel like someone is about to try and mug me, if I had to live there, have no doubt I would keep a sidearm on me at all times.
Yes, I have. 6 times. To most boroughs even. Never fails to amaze me. I wish I could see Tokyo some day. The only city that is said can rival it. Currents and countercurrents flow through there like in no other place. The results of this is what shapes the world. Of course, the world’s capital has a seemy, dirty side, be it in the poor places, in the corridors of the UN or in the offices of the Wall Street movers. Irrespective, they still shape the world in a greater way than any clean, organized, small city can.
I refuse to believe one can continuously live in that filth with those stresses and not be adversely affected.
Perhaps that’s my fault, but the evidence I have from my personal encounters suggest that to be almost factual to me.
You wrote it yourself Hummer: You “refuse to believe.”
I’m not clear on how insulting NYC benefits you, so I’ll just say “different strokes for different folks”.
I’ve spent plenty of time in New York and the idea that you would need or want a sidearm is ridiculous (except possibly in a few isolated areas of the Bronx or outer Queens/Brooklyn). People are direct and in your face but once you get past that they are very accommodating and helpful. And “crime and poverty”… really? It’s one of the safest big cities in the world and the safest >1M city in the US, and it is the richest city in the world, period.
Plaxico Burress disagrees.
But seriously, for the last 15 years or so, NYC has been a wonderful place to live, IF you can afford it. And while I’d love to raise my family there, when I hear what friends pay for rent, I come back to my senses.
I’m sure Plax disagrees about alot of things.
Hummer,
NYC is many things , rushed , crowded , and maybe not mid west nice but it is a world class city with world class city issues, the subways may not be the cleanest but they move 100 of thousands of people each day, you can eat any type of food in the world there and if your fairly polite people will be nice to you if you ask. Be nice to my City. I have traveled to many us cites and each has a seedy side to it.
Never been to NYC, but going to the DC suburbs was bad enough. When I ventured outside of my area, I was reminded how great the southeast is.
Now on the topic of Cadillac naming. The old scheme was easy to figure out, as everything (almost) ended in TS, but this new thing even confuses me, someone who can name all the current Infinitis.
Hopefully life will force you out of your area.
Having said that, you are clearly outside your comfort zone here. Isn’t it bed time yet?
Turboprius, I’m in NC, I’ve been to the semi bad part of DC, whereas I never went more than 5 minutes without hearing sirens, I definately don’t feel safe there, but I still think NYC is a bit worse.
@Hummer,
Where are you from? Butt F4ck Falls, Nowheresville? Were everyone has a shot gun in the back of your “truck”.
I grew as a kid in New York. I go to NYC and I love the place.
The people always helped me when I ask for directions, have a chat when buying a dog from a vendor.
@Marcelo,
I very much think Paris is great as well. Not as influential as NYC. London might also fit into the highly influential basket.
We have some young guys at work who are into drift racing and go to Tokyo often and love the place.
Most everyone is human on this planet and from my experience most people are good.
Maybe Hummer should try respect instead of fear. On the surface they are similar but are quite different. The mafia run on fear, but call it respect. I respect my mother. See the difference Hummer?
Instead of calling it close-minded, maybe it’s more accurate to say, “image obsessed”. It’s not the city where people want to show up in the wrong car, and Cadillac has been the wrong car for a long time, when anyone with taste or an image to present wants a German car.
Of course, once people become image conscious about buying the right brand, they can be close minded to considering a superior offering from the wrong brand.
Though you have a point, image obsession is even more pronounced in second tier world cities like Paris or Shanghai, not to mention third tier world cities like São Paulo. Really original thinking and power goes on in places like New York and in that vein the really powerful are not image obsessed as they “are” the image. Should they choose to start showing up in Cadillacs, watch the rest of the world follow suit forthwith.
I’d think LA is extremely image obsessed. I also think that in some locales its bit more ostentatious than others. Take LA and San Francisco for example. Then both have a particular image though I’d argue that those things that make an image in LA are a bit more visible and shouty.
Have you ever been to Paris or Milan (2nd tier cities)? Los Angeles is interesting. It is much more spread out than New York and has diverse power centers, and yes San Francisco is a world city, too and if taken together, SF and LA are definitely a first tier global “city”. But then again, it’s the same as in NY, the real power brokers in LA and a lot of that has to do with culture and other forms of soft power “are” the image, too. I hardly think Spielberg or the studio owners worry what you and I think. A starting actor or starlet is probably more obsessed with image than young Wall Street whiz kid, true, but as soon as they become big they are the ones people copy. In other words, top people in those cities do as they like, those of us who work for them, probably even more those who work close to them, suffer the pressure even more.
Has anyone else pointed out the irony of Cadillac moving to a city where most people don’t drive and instead use public transportation, taxis and hired cars?
Car-obsessed Los Angeles would have made more sense.
Many.
New York is just as car crazy as any other major metropolis. Probably more so because of the built in obstacles. Yes, many people who live in the city don’t drive but then again, many do. Also, don’t forget the other boroughs and the various suburbs.
I’d like to see NYC based luxury car dealers’ revenue compared with those of other cities. I bet it would be eye opening.
I think the Caddy identification convention should stick with actual names.
Trying to sound like other competitors gives the impression you’ve run out of ideas.
Names of the great coach builders that formed GM should be used.
For the sporty vehicles come up with names that support the product you are selling.
There is no value left in Cadillac history. Fleetwood and Fisher don’t mean anything to the average person. The only things that have real connection to those names are the shuttered factories of Detroit that dot it’s post-industrial landscape.
Here’s a trick question to ask at any gathering of even remotely knowledgeable car people:
What’s a Cadillac?
An American icon that once meant something before it was ravaged by avarice, neglect, and hubris.
It’s supposed to be unanswerable, like “[W]hat happens if an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?”
Okay. Maybe the question should be “[W]hat should a Cadillac be?”
Wait. That one’s easier.
“What should Cadillac be?”
Yes, easy it is. 4 words: Not what it was.
My answer probably didn’t answer your question, and probably just adds more questions.
Cadillac, and Lincoln, are just memories to me. You could slap make believe badges on all their current product and it would mean just as much.
Short answer: Pretense luxury.
Long answer: Historic American brand that wallowed too long in the past and missed the boat that has lead up to the present situation but that, nonetheless, is forging ahead trying to find relevance in the brave new world that is just around the corner or has even begun to take over our lives though most refuse to see.
Marcelo, great response.
GM overly Amercianised Caddy. Huge price with low quality is how many overseas perceive Caddy.
A many point out on this site Caddy is American, but then some wonder why it wouldn’t be we received internationally.
Well, the Euro prestige marques have expended massive energy actually producing some great vehicles. Caddy hasn’t.
A classic case is the heavily blinged Silverado Escalade. Why not buy a Tahoe?
Thanks Big Al! I did give myself a pat on the back for that one, :).
I’d argue that Cadillac forgot it’s past of building cars that were world class. GM put out bad product, not because they were stuck in the past, but because they made crap. It has nothing to do with Cadillac being more Americanized. For a long time, Cadillac was just plain worse than the competition, including Lincoln. There is nothing good about a K-body Seville.
bball, I never said Americanized, that to me is usually not a problem, but a solution. What I think Big Al and I are saying is, as the 70s came along and the whole world downsized and became more efficient, US prosperity allowed it to party like it was 1969. The Japanese meanwhile, learning from Europeans and Americans, and coming up with quite a number of things themselves, actually learned how to design beautiful things. Later the 90s truck and BOF SUV craze (that extended into the 00s) allowed American makers to pretend nothing had happened. When that world came crashing down, American makers were caught with their pants down and looking back on an idealized past inhabited by v8s, opera windows and vinyl roofs and even rehashing that and fake Rolls Royce grills on some cars until what, 05? Of course in that context Cadillac starved while the young ones ignored them and totally swallowed the German pill. Again, the large numbers of retired people with money insulated Cadillac and kept them afloat. Now, those kind of people are few and far between though they inhabit internet forums in force. Cadillac is imitating the Germans. Good, that is what the Japanese did. I think one day Cadillac will put their twist on it and become competitive, much like the Japanese did when they “invented reliability”. The market is changing, everyone is reliable and most drive pretty well. Let’s see what they can come up with. That’s why I said the new Cadillac is still in labor. We have no idea how the new baby will, but if it looks like a 60s kid, it’s dead.
Cadillac downsided too. And it hurt their sales. They lost market share and relevance because they built $hitty cars. If they didn’t burn a whole generation by peddling hot garbage, things would look different. It isn’t just that Japan and Germany showed up and people wanted smaller cars, it’s that GM wiped it’s a$$ with customers for the better part of four decades.
Yeah, but what did GM use to downsize? I think it wasn’t until recently that GM managed good small cars in the US. The Cimarron idea to me was brilliant though from everything I have read on sites like this, the execution was terrible. At the same time, and this is what I’m saying, the ongoing good enough sales of traditional cars blinded them to what was happening. Mercedes had a crisis too in the late 90s, but they reformed and we see the results today. The internet loves to hate the CLA but MB will build the new S based on CLA sales and the C Class can finally touch the 3. Sales are responding, I think they sold here more than BMW for the first time in a long time.
A big ass American car that should only be mad in two guises:
1) long and dark, shiny and black
2) pink
Or so The Boss said.
You want clickbait? Citing two specific features, and then linking to one of their own articles which contain pictures of neither… that’s clickbait.
I will admit that the name is a little silly (although Cadillac has a long history of numerical model names) but I can only think of one reason why TTAC has a daily Cadillac themed post:
It’s the only type of post that will still get any decent participation in the comment section. Let’s face it, nearly everything doesn’t get much of a reaction any more. I fear that TTAC is turning into just another blog site where you can read the same story you saw on Autoblog or Jalopnik a few hours earlier. Where is the original content?
Uh-hum, there is a little article on a Brazilian Honda somewhere on this front page. Quite original and you won’t find it anywhere else. There is an analysis pointing out the Dacia/Nissan Duster/Terrano should go to Canada, quite original and can’t be found anywhere else. There is a discussion on Nissan March sales, also quite original and that won’t be found anywhere else. There is the AMA Phaeton article, again quite original and that can’t be seen anywhere else. Finally, the JB Corvette thing.
Lots of original content that can be found only here today. Quite a bit for a blog that only re-publishes other people’s things it seems. But that could be just me.
Don’t forget my piece on Ian James Corlett’s 1966 Porsche 912 EV from this weekend! You definitely won’t find that story on Jalopnik, AutoblogGreen or Green Car Reports. ;)
Oh Cameron, so sorry! I just knew I was forgetting something important when I wrote my reply!
FYI, I read your article and enjoyed it thoroughly. BTW, late happy birthday!
Thank you!
Yes it’s beating a dead horse, but sometimes a dead horse deserves to be beaten. That gauge cluster in the ATS is CRIMINALLY bad. Who signed off on that? Do they still have a job? They should not.
Look at the gauge cluster in the 2015 update to the Camry. Now look at the ATS. The Toyota’s cluster is 10,000 times better. Hell, the gauges in the new VW Golf are 10,000 times better, and that starts at $18K!
Cadillac interiors overall have only been reasonably competent in the last few years, but they ARE reasonably competent now, if hardly class leading. That cluster though looks pulled from an old rental spec Chevy Lumina.
When something as hugely important as that is allowed through, how many other smaller details have been completely ignored?
The gauges in the Verano would be much better suited to ATS duty than the ones in the ATS.
Hyundai Accent & Kia Rio gauges are better than the ATS.
1) I’m totally serious.
2) I’m so beating a dead horse.
Hey DW, remember when I wrote my articles and a few people asked why I didn’t look at the Regal or ATS?
I honestly think, given my lack of taking advantage of sporty chassis tuning in my normal driving, the Verano T is just a better car than the comparably engined, 2WD ATS.
To be fair, I can never get sick of bashing the gauge cluster, or reading about. Probably the worst design element of any car on the road today, and it deserves every ounce of hate it receives, and then some.
Have you seen the blackout trim on the C pillars of the 2015 Camry?
Bad, but I wouldn’t have those in my face while driving it.
@Davekaybsc: Then don’t buy one. Plenty like it which is why Cadillac outsells Audi.
“How well did it work for Infiniti? Well, can *you* recite their product lineup without looking at their website?”
Q30 = future lux hatchback thingie that looks oddly like the Volvo C30
Q40 = reheated leftover G37 sedans.
Q50 = littleish sedan
Q60 = coupe
Q70 = bigger sedan
Q80 = even bigger sedan for future production
QX? = I don’t care about SUV’s so no I don’t remember and beyond the QX4 being a Pathfinder+leather I don’t really remember the old names either.
I admit though, I had to google the Q30/Q40 real quick. I thought I remembered what they were but I wasn’t 110% sure so I decided to confirm. Turns out I was right in the first place. 50,60,70, and 80 I really did blind though.
Might as well mention that the Q60 is a leftover G37 coupe. One that costs more than the new Q50.
It’s kinda difficult to look at that and only that now because it’s a long term thing designed for global markets and it’s a small part of an overall strategy overhaul. Whether you or I know what nomenclature the car is is irrelevant. All a perspective buyer needs to know is than it’s an Infiniti. Their eyes can do the rest when they visit the lot.
It’s similar to deciding to work out and eat better but than quitting after two weeks because you don’t like steamed broccoli and don’t see where it’s making any significant difference to how you’re body looks and how you feel. It takes consistency and effort and its part of a bigger plan.
As others have pointed out, Cadillac has no value proposition. They very badly want for the Cadillac badge to be their selling proposition, but you don’t make that happen by raising the price. All of the TTAC news lately about Cadillac has essentially communicated the following to me: GM doesn’t want to spend the time. money or effort necessary to make Cadillac a world-class product, and they don’t want to admit that to themselves or their customers, so they’re fiddling with headquarter relocations and delusional product planning. The problem is, they’re fooling themselves, but they’re not fooling anyone else.
GM forgot they’re a company that can make outstanding engines and transmissions. Throw me a boon here; everybody had a friend who had a GM product that was magic. OK, or an uncle, or a cousin; but I’m getting off course. GM needs to break teir most sacrosant vow and build a flagship Caddy with a Corvette engine and slip a few in Camaros too. Buick and Chevy? They should have the most powerful engine they can stuff under the hood the for the top of the line models. Could MG do it? Yes. will they do it? I’m betting against it. However a dual-turbocharged Spark would make a wild commuter car.
Oh no, I can’t edit my typos.
The tiny backseat and center stack from an early 90’s walmart stereo didn’t hurt the Lexus IS any. Just sayin’ … Not only that, but they even sold the utterly miserable IS250 with extra weight AWD and convertible models – one of the most shockingly bad experiences I’ve had in what’s purported to be luxury car and caused my wife to wonder if the park brake was still on.
Oddly, Infiniti’s global sales are up 30% this year 1H 2014 vs 1H2013 as someone wrote above…before some new product rolls out over the next few years. Believe it or not, Cadillac global sales are up 10% so far this year as well…you can google it. It is true.
Luxury car brands are very clearly categorized in terms of sales. Using 2013CY numbers:
Big Dogs
BMW/Audi/Mercedes=1.5-1.7 million global sales
Middle of the Pack
Lexus=523,000 global sales
JLR (I decided to put them together)= 425,000 global sales
Bottom
Cadillac=250,000 global sales
Infiniti=180,000 global sales
Porsche (Yes I put them away from Audi)= 182,000 global sales
Big Dogs: They move down to pick up volume as they are secure up market and continue to refine. I’ll add Porsche here too as they are moving down to get more sales. That’s ok.
Middle: (Lexus) revamps in US to grow around crossovers and natural refreshes and ‘all new’ models with some redesign energy. Trying to grow in China? I don’t know. Wants more in Europe? Not sure if they are trying there either. Diesels?
Don’t really follow JLR.
Bottom:
Cadillac: See below
Infiniti: Global Sales up 30% YTD. Path to 500k global sales unknown. A lot of product on the way. Big bets already made. Sales will go up. Will it pay off? Who knows?
Cadillac:
New guy started on August 1.
Move to NY? A lot of drama from morons everywhere screaming crap like ‘people in NY don’t drive cars’ as if they think everyone in the New York metro area lives in high rise 5th avenue apartments and ignoring the obvious wealth in the counties surrounding the NYC metro area. I’ve been in those areas. Many of those people drive mainstream cars/crossovers/minivans…but the statement about NY metro area and ‘they don’t drive’ is just pure internet stupidity. I saw some numbers a few years ago about 80% of the luxury vehicles in the USA being sold in 20% of the markets.
That said, moving to NYC doesn’t solve anything. Nor is it stupid. Morons who mention the ‘high cost’ of rent in NYC have no clue about the incredibly small amount of cost that office space for a team of 100 or so have against the revenue of a division of a car company. I didn’t crunch numbers, but I would imagine selling 20 more Escalades a month might pay for the increased rent for an office in Soho.
Renaming the models? As some have said, it is the brand, not the models. Waves of people are not showing up to Cadillac dealerships and seeing the back seat of the ATS or other things and walking away. Consideration isn’t there. Now, Cadillac sales are up big over a couple years ago…transaction prices are way up too. Morons who say they should just ‘lower the price’ and everything will be great really don’t understand the business.
Those that long for the return of the ‘Fleetwood’ or other vintage naming are the type of people that belong on the internet and not in the business world. They are also they type of people who don’t buy/lease luxury vehicles.
Re-naming of models doesn’t matter although they shouldn’t mess with Escalade. China expansion will happen…actually is already happening (thus the 10% global growth YTD in spite of US losses) and has to work with US strategy or else.
Curious to see what Johan can get done over the next few years. He won’t have influence on product for a cycle or so. The bitching about move to NY and renaming is just internet noise in the big picture.
I think that Johan is moving headquarter location and changing names because that is about all he can do in the short-term to show he is earning the big bucks. If new CUVs and improved CUEs, better ATS interiors, and a new family of world-class diesels were just months away I doubt he would be focusing on moving the marketing staff and changing names. Cadillac’s big problem is that they have put all their recent efforts into segments that are shrinking (i.e. ATS and CTS and Escalade and the upcoming super sedan), and/or that these efforts have serious flaws that make them uncompetitive without major resale killing discounts. What upsets a lot of people with long memories (and creates a lot of clicks and comments on Cadillac stories) is that Cadillac was the top of the world luxury car brand in both sales and quality until about 1967, and they proceeded to flush it all away with mostly crap cars for 40 years. They are better now, but when you compare global sales figures with the Germans I don’t see them ever reclaiming the crown they pissed away.
CR-X CR-V CR-Z somehow I have no problem to identify what is what..
Apparently there is little truth to the rumor that GM will import and rebadge the Volkswagen Typ 2K, to be sold as the Cadillac Caddy…
As much as I bemoan Cadillac, they are honestly not that bad, although JdN’s naming scheme is garbage. They are good looking cars other than that awful permanent light nonsense going on with the front ends, that is tacky, but otherwise the cars are not bad. The pricing needs to go back to reality though and the backseat room needs to expand with both the ATS and CTS. If they priced it right and did those things they will be fine. I don’t love the new Escalade, but since it has no real natural competitor in ESV form, it does not really matter right now. If they want to charge the current prices, then the car needs to come up properly to the standards of the other cars in their price range.
If the E-Class gets updated in the same manner that the S-Class and C-Class did, then Cadillac is in major trouble, BMW and Audi too to an extent.
To speak the sounds ‘C – T – Six’ our mouths and lips widen and we bare our teeth in a smile.
Nomenclature is more than graphics– it’s vocals…