I have a fond spot in my heart for the Pontiac G8. I was once the proud owner of a White Hot G8 GT. I bought it new in March of 2009 and somewhat regrettably traded it in June of 2012, putting nearly eighty thousand loving miles on it along the way—you can see a picture of mine from the day I brought it home at the top of this page. Sure, I endured the occasional broken crankshaft, and yes, the interior would have been better suited to a $15K Cobalt or G3 rather than a halo car, but what a machine! It combined 361 horsepower derived from a massive 6.0 liter V8 engine with all the interior and trunk space anyone could ever need. Of course, there was also the much-less-desirable-but-still-decent V6 variant, well as the unicornish GXP, which was avaiable with a 6MT and shared the Camaro SS’ 6.2 liter LS3, generating a diff-crunching 412 horsepower.
Unfortunately, the untimely demise of Pontiac led to a very small production run for the G8—fewer than forty thousand of them were made in total. Therefore, on the rare occasion that I see one on the road (I actually saw my old car on the road recently), I can’t help but smile.
Lately, however, when I see one, I’m more likely to cringe than smile.
The sticker price on my G8 in 2009 was roughly $34k—that was for a G8 GT Premium Sport package with every available option checked, including leather, roof, 19″ rims, leather-wrapped steering wheel, etc. In 2014 dollars, that’s a little more than $38k. Not a huge amount of money, but it was enough to ensure that most G8s were purchased by middle-class consumers who likely had little to no interest in doing severe cosmetic modifications to their cars.
However, as G8 transaction prices continue to dip well under $20k, I’m starting to see a lot more of them that look like this:
Or this:
Or this:
Or, God forbid, this:
STOP IT.
The G8 was an aggressively styled car, to be sure, but it had an air of class about it. People who didn’t know exactly what it was often confused it with the car against which it was specifically benchmarked—the E60 BMW 5 series. It was a car that an executive could have driven and not looked out of place.
It was never meant for the Fast and Furious set. Unfortunately, as the cars become more affordable, the owners are trending younger, dumber, and less tasteful. As a result, most G8 forums have turned into a place where the Signal to Noise ratio is about 1:100. You’re much more likely to see a video of somebody laying waste to a V6 Mustang at a stoplight than anything else.
Normally, these sorts of rolling atrocities, when done to something like a Civic, don’t particularly bother me—it’s your car, your money, do what you want. But there were less than forty thousand G8s made. That means that every time you decide to put neon on a G8, or lower one to where it hits the bumpstops, or put Plasti-Dipped TR Motorsports wheels on one, you are doing the automotive equivalent of putting a Mickey Mantle rookie card in the spokes of your bicycle wheel. No, I don’t think that G8s will ever be worth any money as a collector’s car, but for those who want one there just aren’t going to be that many of them available on the used market. Couldn’t you just take your $18K and go ruin a WRX or Eclipse instead? Here, I’ll help you find an E36 on AutoTrader. Or if you really want an American (sorta) V8-powered sedan, buy a Charger R/T and go nuts with tasteless mods (like every other Charger owner ever). Just leave the G8s alone!
It wouldn’t be so bad if travesties like the ones pictured were somewhat of an occasional transgression, but the G8 pages and boards are full of them. I fear the day is coming soon when finding an unmodified G8 GT will become impossible, much like finding a Sentra SE-R with an virgin SR20DE. Listen, if you simply must modify a G8, keep it simple—buy some Kooks headers. Get a set of nice Koni Yellows. I don’t dig the total de-badged look, but, hey, there are worse things you could do (LIKE PUT NEON ON IT).
So, please, keep your G8 stock. If you won’t do it for me, do it for the kids. Or the whales. Or the epileptic dogs. Thanks, and Lutz bless you.
“People who didn’t know exactly what it was often confused it with”
A G6!
A Grand Prix!
An Impala!
In all seriousness, that first red example looks alright to me (though I find smoked headlamp lenses dated). The other ones are just ridiculous, and the lighted hood one reminds me of a jack-o-lantern.
“It was a car that an executive could have driven and not looked out of place.”
Only if he took off the tasteless Pontiac badges.
Well the M6 looks exactly like a Holden GTO.
“It was a car that an executive could have driven and not looked out of place.”
Only if he took off the tasteless Pontiac badges.
Now that wasn’t very nice…
Indeed not, but I feel it’s the truth! Pontiac was the Wal-Mart of GM brands.
Is this when I walk away and say I’m never going to engage you in conversation again? :)
Probably.
Gotta agree with Corey. And it appears that GM did, too. They studied the market for Pontiac and, try as they might to make it an affordable alternative to BMW, they found that there was no way to shake the gold-chain association of the brand. So, it went away and they saved Buick. And I don’t think it was entirely because of China. I think GM knew that affordable luxury is easier for them to do than affordable sport – and the market prefers it, too.
alexndr333
I’m not sure what you mean about “try as they might”. If the entire world’s market had not crashed in 2008-2009 I’m pretty sure things would be different.
I’m not sure why you don’t think China had alot to do with it too. It’s pretty simple really. Pontiac’s were only sold in the USA, Buick was sold in both China and USA. Buick was doing well in China.
Interesting comment on the “gold-chain” association. Never heard it put quite like that. I suppose anything that isn’t so bland as to blend into its surroundings might fit that phrase. I have a hard time seeing how Pontiac was much different than Dodge (and could have easily survived as GM’s Dodge/SRT had they not pulled the plug).
Poncho, “Try as they might…” From the 6000STE and Bonneville SSE to the GTO and the G8, GM tried and tried. As good as the G8 was, they could never get BMW aspirers to think of Pontiac as an alternative – too low-rent. I’m not saying it wasn’t GM’s fault for putting out too much crap as “driving excitement”, it just was too far gone by the late 2000’s.
As for China and Buick, I merely noted that China wasn’t the only reason to keep Buick. Affordable luxury has been GM’s raison d’etre since the 1950’s. From the ’70’s to the early 2000’s, GM’s view of affordable luxury became “cheap” luxury. Now, everyone is doing the not-quite-a-full-luxury-car these days: Acura, Lincoln, Volvo, Infiniti and Chrysler. Buick is doing as well as, and in some cases better, than any of those brands.
@_ ‘alexndr333’.
There is much wrong with your comment about Pontiacs.
Gold Chain crowd, never ever got that impression, before the GTO it was the well off farmers car. After the GTO it still was, but now they had added the executive to the demographic with the Gran Prix, and the the young & older gearheads with ‘affordable’ GTO/Sprints/Birds.
You must be getting the gold chain’ idea from Burt Reynolds and that hilarious, but stupid Smokey and the Bandits movie.
Now retract your denigrating comment before Poncho Indian hunts you down and ruins your day.
3Deuce27
Thanks for the laugh! I’d be lucky to hunt a mouse down at this stage in my life.
alexndr333
I smell what you’re cooking, I just think you’re taking a very small slice out of what Pontiac was. The only time it was said to be aiming to be an alternative to BMW was when Lutz said it. Other than that it was always mean’t to be a sporty AMERICAN take on the attainable car. Not everything has to be a BMW or Mercedes (or a Toyota or Honda for that matter). I only wish Cadillac subscribed to this philosophy.
FWIW, Pontiac sold very very well in the 80’s and early 90’s. It is a shame that the cools ones that are left are being driven by the more questionable members of our society, but that can also be seen in just about every other car ever made if one bothers to look.
Hey now some of us have positive delusions about the Arrowhead, the same way Dodge’s Ram Horns are acceptable after the unmitigated junk wearing them from the mid-90s to now.
The cladding, electrical issues, questionable owners, ratty nature, “Driving Excitement” etc etc all ruined Pontiac after about 1977. I don’t think they did anything positive after that time.
I love old Wide-Trac Bonnevilles and the like, though. But IMO the Buick or Olds version was always more appealing, always!
can we get an eye roll smiley on here?
Electrical issues? Cladding? ratty nature?
You’re allowed an opinion even if it is wrong.
They may not have been your cup of tea, but do you really think its a good idea to start throwing rocks when you live in a glass house?
I want to disagree, but you’re kind of right. At least when referring to the Colonnade A bodies, downsized B bodies, and 80s G bodies. I’m about even with the W bodies, though the redesigns the Regal got, even before the big 1997 redesign, kill it for me.
Even so, the only not that great looking Colonnades IMO are the Chevrolets (except for the slant nose Laguna).
Poncho I’m serious.
They have electrical issues – but still run. Sure you can’t see the display on the AC Delco, and sure the sunroof panel leaks a bit, and sure the door trim isn’t aligned, but the damn thing starts up every day for my trip to the corner store for cigs and a big Coke! Sometimes the doors won’t unlock themselves and I have to climb in through the window and I knock down my Pine Tree Air Freshener. But it doesn’t happen if the battery has been sapped dead!
They maintained the AWFUL extensive boddy cladding well after it was done to death and everyone else had moved on. The cladding was the only thing differentiating them from a more tasteful Buick or Olds.
They do run though for a long time.
Corey
I have replaced the bulbs in my wife’s delco radio. Took all of half and hour and $2.00.
I’ve also been in a 335ix that had the same problem, as well as a Mustang GT convertible. Those aren’t typically seen as “electrical problems”.
I’ve had a Pontiac’s with sunroofs dating back to 1989, never had a leak. Of course I make sure to check the drains once in a while.
Never had any major trim fitment issues.
The style is pretty subjective don’t you think, so why even bothering with that comment.
The coke and cigarettes comment? Glass house remember?
CoreyDL got it absolutely right, wrt the cladding. It looked cheap when it was new and degraded to trashy as it aged.
what Pontiac had offensive cladding after 2003?
@PonchoIndian
Not being snarky, but cladded N-body Grand Am and Sunfire ran through MY05. The better question is after 2004/5, not 2003.
28
I don’t mind snarky, I’m equal opportunity :)
I forgot about the GA. At least it was only the GT’s that kept the cladding at that point. I totally put the Sunfire out of my head too.
I thought the big Pontiacs wore the cladding well, and the GA up until the 98 redesign. After that..yeah, um, perfect cars to knock over a 7-11 with.
PonchoIndian: “what Pontiac had offensive cladding after 2003?”
Does it even matter? They had enough years of incredibly cheesy cladding that I probably stopped looking at Pontiacs at some point and it didn’t matter to anyone else, either, because enough years of “ewwwww” had pretty much killed the brand by the mid 2000’s.
People talk about GM killing this brand in 2008 or so but that’s not accurate… it had been dead for a while. GM just called the code at that point.
Kix
The incredibly cheesy cladding remark is pretty old and well used. You could at least attempt to be original. When they were new, there were plenty of cars that had cladding. I’ll admit that the last Grand AM Gt’s looked dated still using it as long as they did, but to jump on the cladding bandwagon is lazy even for you.
I can see why you “stopped looking”. Any kind of driving enjoyment doesn’t seem to be part of your purchasing requirements, and I can respect that, just don’t try to lecture me on it and start throwing rocks.
PonchoIndian: “The incredibly cheesy cladding remark is pretty old and well used.”
And, yet, it remains relevant. It’s a signature characteristic for Pontiac. Sure, they might have improved things by some point in time but who cares? They’d killed it by then.
Nor am I allergic to cladding, if it’s done right. I owned a contemporary of some of the worst GM offenders and it didn’t have that signature crappy cutout GM’s sported so the door could swing open. Even today, GM missed the mark. Have you looked at the side of a Volt? They’ve traced around the base of the doors with their plastic applique. WTH? That’s a line that needed accenting?
I must admit, I’ve only driven one Pontiac in the last 15 or so years. A friend lent it to me when he wanted to use my minivan. It was a relatively powerful engine stuffed into an inadequate, uncomfortable and cheesy car. Why would I look again?
PonchoIndian: “I can see why you “stopped looking”. Any kind of driving enjoyment doesn’t seem to be part of your purchasing requirements, and I can respect that, just don’t try to lecture me on it and start throwing rocks.”
A lot you know. Driving enjoyment does enter into my purchase decisions, it’s just not as far up the list as you deem appropriate. I buy (new or used) and hold. Pontiacs wouldn’t make the list even if I had felt they were fun to drive. I get more driving enjoyment out of a 127hp Corolla, along with better fuel economy, reliability, visibility and passenger comfort.
Pontiac built junk for years. Even GM realized that they had killed it. Game over.
Kix
Tomato tomaato my friend.
The “cheesy cladding” comment is just lazy. Like I said, come up with some kind of legit complaint that hasn’t been beaten to death by the unimaginative media.
To continue to harp on “missed mark” styling is way too subjective to even argue. I’m not a huge fan of the Volt style, but then again, I think it is way more attractive than the Prius.
What Pontiac did your drive? Its hard to believe it was more cheesy and crappy than a Camry SE or Corolla S with the JC Whitney ground effects package they put on them.
“I get more driving enjoyment out of a 127hp Corolla, along with better fuel economy, reliability, visibility and passenger comfort.”
And there endith the conversation. I respect your right to choose, but to argue that a 127hp Corolla offers ANY driving enjoyment? Pretty sure we will see eye to eye on exactly zero.
Working in insurance, I have to admit that I’ve noticed a trend towards 90’s Pontiacs being the car of choice for driving around the rust belt without mandatory liability coverage in place and getting in to hit-and-runs.
also “Princess on Board” stickers with cigarette butts flying out of the window and a distinct stance caused by the driver’s massive girth.
Tinkerbell window decals, tweety-bird steering wheel covers, those stupid sheep things you put on seatbelts, crappy Autozone tack-on chrome vents, pawn shop rims, rattling body cladding caused by huge subwoofers worth twice the value of the car, prematurely aging middle-age women yelling at bill collectors on their phone while cutting you off on the freeway off-ramp, scrawny meth-mouth guys with baggy t-shirts, and flat brim caps.
Yeah, I love the last couple generations before GM pulled the plug but I would definitely have the Holden bodywork and badging shipped over from Australia if I was ever to own one. That little red badge carries way too much of an association with trash for me.
Lol Sixray, yes! You’ve got the idea.
Poncho, I am not quite sure I get the cigs/Coke glass houses statement. Personally I do neither of those things, if that’s what ya meant.
Corey
You get all butt hurt then take your baseball and go home if someone says anything remotely bad about Infiniti, just laughing at the irony of this whole conversation that’s all.
Poncho,
That’s generally untrue. The MPG of the 3.5V6 is not good. It should have more than 5 speeds on the automatic in 2009. The new naming scheme is ridiculous. The EX is a joke of a car. The QX is hideous and very expensive. At the time, the M was not completely competitive with its main competition, the GS. The M was not large enough to carry the flagship burden, and there should have been another Q after the failed Q went away after MY2006.
See?
But the cigs and big Coke, fuzzy steering wheel cover, etc. things don’t really apply to Infiniti owners.
Guys, come on. I see both sides of it but I view the Arrowhead as being the symbol of a sportier looking Buick. I realize this is delusion given the J, N, and W bodies out there in the hands of trash, but its my delusion and I’m sticking to it.
Does anyone take a similar stereotypical view to Lexus as a brand given the sheer number of destroyed but running ES3xx, RX3xx, and LS4xx in the hands of sh*tbags? How about Cadillac and its heroin dealer edition Escalade?
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the cladding really was awful, and more generally I got quite a laugh out of Sixray’s riff.
It’s a shame that the company that produced the ’64 GTO and the same year Grand Prix fell so low…
And I feel Bark M’s pain. I wish there were some Peugeot 404s around.
“That little red badge carries way too much of an association with trash for me.”
It’s unfortunate for Pontiac that their cars seem to last long enough to make it into the hands of the very bottom rung of society and then stay there for a good amount of time.
Perhaps they should have made them terminally expensive to fix like many European makes, or with a 10 year expiry date like a Hyundai so other Pontiac or future GM owners wouldn’t have to suffer the ennui of driving the same make of car as a poor person.
“But the cigs and big Coke, fuzzy steering wheel cover, etc. things don’t really apply to Infiniti owners.”
That’s because Infiniti owners are too busy polishing their gigantic fake chrome vents on their whale-faced SUVs
Lie2me
I thought most Infiniti owners are out getting manicures and pedicures so they can look good at their next open house.
Carbon fiber-look vinyl wrap, yo.
I wonder how long those things stay on. And also, it would seem to me a good way to cause rust and/or paint blemishes if you don’t ensure the paint is VERY clean before you put it on there.
Like Saran-Wrap, it clings, but it’s a real pain to work with and get right
This conversation makes me wonder when SC Johnson will see the wisdom in offering Carbon Fiber Look Saran Wrap? I’ve been wishing for a cost-effective way to dress up my left-overs.
It wont cause rust if properly applied as it will seal out both water and oxygen. Now when you peel it off if the paint is in poor shape it can pull it off.
I bet it would ruin a 90s car with already weakened clearcoat.
Yea if the paint is already peeling or about to start peeling then IF you were to remove the wrap you’ll bring the damaged paint with it.
Thats still a step above the plasti-dip I see everywhere these days.
Whats wrong with Plasti-dip? Thinking about doing that to my 91 rodamaster wagon – so much cheaper then a repaint…
If you just spray the hood it’ll make your car look cheaper, especially on a “Rodamaster”.
Have fun and enjoy your car, kids. That’s what they were made for.
+1. I’m quite sure Bark has some fond memories of his car, but it’s not particulary ‘great’ or collectable vehicle (362 hp form 6 liters?, occassional broken cranksshaft?) I would get more sad when I see a horribly ‘riced’ 2nd gen Civic CRX, but at the same time I appreciate that people still keep them running after some 20 years.
About the only 2nd gen CRXs I’ve ever seen are at least a little riced…
I wonder if you can fit a K20 or K24 under the hood. That would be fun.
There’s one around here with some absolutely heinous chrome 24s. Makes me cry every time I see it. I want to live in a world where people don’t put incredibly ugly and cheap looking oversized wheels on their cars.
Could be worse, there is an Audi S4 near me with chrome wheels, with the stupid too-small tires, lowered until it scrapes with camber that must give it the contact patch of my mountain bike. And very loud exhaust, of course. Owner is a mid-20-something who works at the local Advance Auto.
That seems to be what happens when performance cars get cheapish these days – the kids get ahold of them and ruin the performance for some bizarre idea of “looking cool”. Some of the things I have seen done to poor unsuspecting BMW 335i’s don’t bear repeating. At least those cars can’t be maintained on a Burger King salary so they usually end up dead in a backyard before too long. The poor G8s are likely to soldier on for ages.
One oddity – Saabs. There is a contingent of kids in the Saab world who are into making them faster. But they don’t tend to go for the ridiculous styling and stancing for the most part, it is all under the hood.
Yeah, I can’t say I see too many Saabs gangstered out. But then again I don’t see too many Saabs in general. :P
“There is a contingent of kids in the Saab world who are into making them faster”
That shouldn’t be that hard as the basics are mostly there…
@ krhodes…Lol….the “adults” have been saying that since the first teenagers started rodding Model Bs into High Boys. As long as the young ‘uns are enjoying their cars and not doing anything too unsafe or stupid, I have no issue.
Trouble is, too many of them do things that are stupid and unsafe. See “stance”.
Krhodes
Is say the stance guys are mostly stupid not unsafe. If they are on air suspensions they typically raise them a bit when not cruising at a car show. If on coils then they just aren’t getting the most out of their vehicles. The harm in this is mostly self inflicted, such as written away subframe bolts and frequent tie purchases. It’s not like there’s an epidemic of overly cambered cars taking or bus stops.
It isn’t my cup of tea, but I don’t see a compelling reason to force them to stop.
In theory, around here the state disagrees with you and the cars won’t pass annual inspection. So either they “know a guy”, or they put it back to close to stock once a year.
Of course, our annual frost heaves, snow, and ice keep this from being a widespread phenomenon. Probably most of them have a beater truck for winter. There is no way that kid I mentioned with the S4 drives it in the winter.
Which state if you don’t mind my asking? Most people I know who stance their cars run a different rim tire combo in the winter and also a more reasonable ride height. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a super cambered rim in the winter months now that I think about it. I also don’t tend to see them hauling balls on back roads even in the summer. Hell, law enforcement should be applauding the trend.
To be perfectly honest it’s the guys, like myself really, running performance oriented setups who are taking the most liberties with the motor vehicle code.
One of the best things about the G8 was it’s sleeper, just another Pontiac sedan, appearance. I think maintaining that nondescript look is what gives it it’s understated cool. No need to scream it when you’ve got a real screamer
I think the STS-V was good at doing this. The M5 has (for the most part) been good at it too.
Perfect example, just a couple of tidbits (different grille on the V) here and there to let those who know, know what you got
I *love* the STS-V. Our family friend has a 2006 STS-V in silver with the light grey interior. Every time she lets me drive it (usually on the interstate), I get a big grin on my face. But don’t ever turn off the traction control, or you’ll find yourself facing the wrong way in traffic…
Their money, their car.
Also, there are probably some people out there that would say putting 80,000 miles on a limited-production run vehicle in 3 years is also “ruining” the car.
Barks Article, Barks opinion.
Bark’s Article, Bark’s Opinion, Bark’s Whining About How Others Like to Dress Up Their Cars.
Sure, I can shake my head and laugh at some of these things… but it’s their money, their car, their tastes and Bark can’t “save” cars he doesn’t own.
Bark’s Article, Bark’s Opinion, Bark’s Whining About How Others Like to Dress Up Their Cars, Others whining about Bark’s whining.
“It was a car that an executive could have driven and not looked out of place.”
That’s a real knee slapper right there.
+1.
My wife saw me shopping for these on autotrader a couple of years back. She saw the hood louvers and explained that someone who wears a suit every day probably shouldn’t show up in that car. I bought a sleepier sleeper instead.
“She saw the hood louvers and explained that someone who wears a suit every day probably shouldn’t show up in that car.”
That makes me chuckle. What I think happens is those that sign the front side of pay checks really don’t care. Those that sign the back do.
“She saw the hood louvers and explained that someone who wears a suit every day probably shouldn’t show up in that car.”
That made me chuckle. I think what happens is those that sign the front of paychecks really don’t care. Those that sign the back do.
(paychecks of course used in the vernacular)
+1. General Motors and not the kids put hood scoops on the G8. That’s an unwelcome nod to the David Hasselhoff Knight Rider era of Pontiac.
When I drove an unmodified G8 GT I was severely unimpressed. Sure the V8 sounded great, but it felt no quicker than a rental spec Impala with the big V6.
Granted I spent no time in the twisties so perhaps that is where this car shines.
fWIW I see plenty of ‘wrapped’ MB & BMW products around these parts. Some folks just like to stand out from the crowd. This is what makes Merica so great!
In a straight line, it probably isn’t much quicker. However, I set FTD at a KY region autocross in mine a couple of years ago. How many Impalas could do that? :)
G8 GTs are at least a full second quicker 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile than any 3.6L Impala. Maybe your butt-dyno was broken that day?
@87 Morgan,
Actually the vehicle (along with all of the other Commodore vehicles) was designed by poached BMW engineers.
The vehicles chassis and suspension is a nearly identical to a 5 Series.
After giving my, bought new, G8 GT to the girlfriend, I got my G8 GXP (automagic tranny)used and I am never trading it in. I daily drive this sucker in all weather and am at 70K now.
It is a sad decline, but there are original owners out there and people who won’t totally desecrate the things.
As for keeping it stock, I totally agree with you. I’ve got summer only rubber, intake, headers, and bushings. The GXP sounds exactly like a C6. The exterior must be left unmolested.
I never thought of the G8 as rental material, as if…
My hope is that G8’s in the marketplace will resell in the same vein as S2000s. Unmolested ones (2009) go for $30K, and riced-out, lowered, aftermarket spoiler-equipped ones go for $16 and below. With any luck, the same situation will happen for the G8. I’m on the team that says the engineers and designers handed you a really nice Pontiac. They didn’t go through that much effort only for you to stop by AutoZone or order through JC Whitney to pimp it out. There’s no shame in cruising in a stock G8, there is a little, outfitting it with matte black wheels.
I concur. Sure you have the right to do anything to your property. But some of us consider ourselves stewards of sorts….sometimes you get a great chance to own something special and IMO you have an obligation to preserve it. Not so sure a G8 is quite at that league, but some cars, landmark buildings, art, etc sure deserve to be protected from someone with money but no respect.
” But some of us consider ourselves stewards of sorts….sometimes you get a great chance to own something special and IMO you have an obligation to preserve it.”
That can be interpreted in many ways. When you say preserve does that mean use sparingly if at all? Id so, how does using something for its intended purpose denote a lack of respect.
This reminds me of certain attitudes in the Warbird community. Buy it but don’t fly it. Put it away so others can look at it too!
I can tell you this. If I’m ever fortunate enough to buy a P-51 (or something equivalent) it will not be a hangar queen. If people are concerned about preservation, start a foundation an solicit donations. I’ll even give.
But when it comes to something that has my name (or business) on the title, I’ll enjoy it in my own way. If it’s an airplane, have no doubt it will be flown. Cars and motorcycles put on the road, Boats in the water and women will be mounted:-)
Ha-when I worked in rental we had a bunch of them in my region. A few of the V6, but mostly the GT. I was at a level where I got a company car, I drove a G8 GT from the day we got it until the day we turned it back.
But yeah, it was not a real large volume for fleet sales. In fact for my company my region on the east coast got them, and one region on the west coast also got some.
The G8 is/was a rental car on steroids, nothing more. Just because GM “benchmarked” it with a 5 series does not make it anything close to a BMW. Maybe I “benchmarked” Brad Pitt but that does not make me a movie star.
I think it is great that the Jesse Pinkman set is actually using the G8’s as the performance cars they are supposed to be as opposed to the cars being garage queens. The black G8 with the red stripe looks far cooler than OEM rental white.
It’s not close to a 5-Series in looks or interior quality, but it is every bit the E39 5er’s equal in steering and handling.
Says the guy who bought one, used it until he got bored of it, and threw it away.
Your old car probably appreciates it’s current owner, getting flogged to an inch of it’s life while wearing it’s hurriedly-applied plastidip skunk stripes and XXR wheels of a worse spec than stock. That’s real love.
In the end, these will just be another shipping container for an LS engine, along with the TrailblazerSS.
/Troll
I think we need more of these LS shipping containers.
Yeah, I could use a shipping container full of LS engines…
I could sell off the container except for one engine, then buy something to put that engine in! :P
Ignore Bark. Keep on making trashy modifications to those G8s. I want maximum resale value for my almost unmolested stickshift GXP. (The only mods are replacement speakers, a CAGS disable, and a closed bin/navigation center console from a Holden Calais.)
Wish they’d kept the G8 in production a little longer. I’m sure my mom would have replaced her ’05 Bonneville GXP with a G8 GXP. That would have pleased me as I always end up buying mom’s “old” car when she gets a new one. I am liking the Bonneville GXP, but the Northstar engine’s reputation bothers me a bit.
Pity I was only two years old when she got rid of her ’63 Impala 409 in 1966 – like to have that car today.
a great car… but it was a pontiac.
which means, it was inevitably going to fall into the hands of a certain type of owner.
(my first car was a pontiac. in my defense i left it stock.)
hmm, not quite in the same vane as a Mustang GT though…
Sadly true, Mustangs do attract a particular sort of individual that is aesthetically challenged in a “bless your little heart you certainly made that Mustang unique” kind of way.
But hell, its kept the car in production for the last 50 years despite Ford’s (suck it Jac Nasser you tried and FAILED!) best effrots to do the car in so there is that.
I’m with Bark. This goes for performance cars in general.
I just kind of had an epiphany that crystallizes why I’ve been disavowed with the modded car scene over the last few years. And it’s a reflection of American culture in general today. These monstrosities are just reflections of people who “buy” instead of “do”. Right? Plastidip some wheels, throw on some hood stripes, tints, exhaust… put it all on a credit card, on top of a double digit 7 year loan. Now you have a new identity.
But, you can’t drive. You can’t really turn a wrench. You don’t really know much about how cars work. You just have a car that you threw some crap at to feel like you are somebody. But you haven’t really done anything but make some poorly thought out purchases… you are just as much of a nobody as any other consumer, with more sperm in your veins. The whole thing is dripping with a sad combo of desperation and laziness, rather than an actual need and appreciation for individuality and true passions for all things automotive.
I have been finding myself gravitating towards folks like fabricators, track day junkies, etc… people who DO things, MAKE things, not just BUY things. I remember once I was reading an issue of Honda Tuning mag, and one of the guys who did a build was crying about his credit card builds. That was when the veneer cracked and probably the point of no return for me.
I agree with what you said and it’s true in other areas as well. How many people do you know who love (watching) sports but are loathe to get of the couch and actually play something?
Look at the amount of reality shows on TV. It seems viewers can’t get enough. Why? I don’t know about you, but there are much better uses for my time than watching a fake “reality” show but as the Kardashians et al have proven, people love their reality programming. Some of these shows and viewers remind me of Fahrenheit 451…just need a TV wall, which it appears were very close to having.
You mentioned it’s a reflection of the culture in general and I’m not so sure about that. As you said, there are those that “DO”. I think there’s less fast money to be made off of those people and as a consequence they’re not given the media exposure the others get.
The most I’ve ever seen these modified is when people do the Holden-badge conversion. But those other mods do *suck*; you’re right…
I would go so far as to say if Bark really wanted it to remain pure, it should never have had the Pontiac symbol on it. The truth in the statement “It was a car that an executive could have driven and not looked out of place”… lets just say it depends on what kind of company you are an executive at! When Cadillac sometimes struggles with “executive class” compared to its German and Japanese competitors, you have to REALLY ask yourself if Pontiac is in that same grouping!
hmm, what exactly was the G8’s competition? Other than the Charger and Chrysler 300 I can’t think of one other real competitor.
RWD, V8, Mid 30’s to high 30’s for 360 to 415HP, full size sedan. Hmm, a used up BMW 540 maybe?
“Competition” isn’t just cars that have similar specs, it’s cars that are frequently cross-shopped.
One set of G8 buyers was cross-shopping the cars with other cheap full-size sedans, because the entry prices for the V6 and GT models were so low. For these buyers the competition was the Impala, Charger, Azera, and maybe Avalon.
Another set of G8 buyers was looking for cheap RWD thrills and focused on the GT. For these buyers the competition was the Charger, but also smaller RWD cars like base 3-Series and even two-door cars like Mustangs.
Finally there were (a few) GXP buyers. Some of them would have been comparing the GXP with more refined but less powerful entry-lux cars, others against used luxury or sports cars. Personally, I cross-shopped the GXP against an Infiniti G37, and not much else. The Germans were a poor value and the TL SH-AWD 6MT (which would have been on the list) wasn’t available yet.
This seems like a pretty accurate description to me. I bought mine because I was looking for something unique, fairly large, decently sporting and under 30K. The G8 ticked all the boxes.
/Now if only they hadn’t made the control arms out of spaghetti and the door locks out of rejected Soviet auto parts.
Until very recently, my company had a Magnum R/T. I often felt like it was the only one running around on its factory wheels, if not the only one without a billet-look grill. Oddly enough, the new Tundra that replaced it has been given body colored bumpers and mirrors, 20-inch chrome wheels from the top trim level, and a silver grill since we took delivery. I feel like I never really knew my business partner. I can’t quite bring myself to drive it anymore, which is a shame. I was looking forward to getting it since I first had the idea of buying a Tundra over a year ago.
Was searching for used HEMI Chargers under $12K online this weekend and saw similar mods as to the G8’s above. One guy took the stock wheels and painted them black with what appeared to be a 3-inch wall trim paintbrush and a can of Glidden.
To: Bark and all who agree with this piece
Msg: Get over yourselves.
I would like to add to that…to those who are also judging others and this car based on the Pontiac badge, see Msg above.
+1
I’ve always found the G8 to be a pretty boring sports sedan that some people took too seriously simply because they’re not as prevalent as some other cars.
Also, I take a lot of heat from people for driving a 4WD Porsche 911 around all winter, in all conditions. Those that don’t like it are free to make an offer to buy the car.
These are just things, meant to be used up. Kind of like when people put 80k quick miles on a “rare” car.
“… I take a lot of heat from people for driving a 4WD Porsche 911 around all winter…”
I find this amusing. Do people think a Porsche shouldn’t be driven in winter? Why have it sitting in your garage when you can be enjoying it? To me, a 4WD Porsche is the ultimate winter “beater”.
Reg; “meant to be used up”
In totally practical world, you would never own anything you can’t leave out in the rain.
Hate to break it to you, but people might have opinions you don’t agree with. If you can’t deal with that, internet comment boards are probably not somewhere you should frequent.
Insisting that your opinion is “correct” is self-absorbed and narcissistic. Furthermore, insisting that I abstain from the internet because I can’t deal with other people’s opinions is more self-absorbed and narcissistic.
There’s a difference between holding an opinion and asserting the objective validity of that opinion.
I’m OK with the first one, I’ll call you out on the second one. I can handle the internet just fine, hombre.
This would not be a problem if the car was offered with the Trishield.
Because then it would have been called Wildcat or Park Avenue, and old people would still own them! :)
Well some of us are rather interested in near end of run Park Avenue Ultras for making sleepers…
Is that even worth it? A woman here has a near-end run Park, as it’s the “Skyline Edition” thing. I don’t think an FWD car of THAT size with those overhangs can make a proper sleeper, no matter what you do to the engine and suspension. It’s just not gonna work.
Just get a Marauder.
I’ve lived here for ten years and seen maybe 4 or 5 Marauders!
I mean, I’ve seen more of whatever Marquis trim package gave you the body colored grille but without the rest of the Marauder stuff…
I’ve only seen a few, and two of those were on the block in 04/05. However someone in my company is driving one, however this is also the company with TWO Murano Convertible abominations, two 200 series Volvos in the parking lot (one being my N/A 244, the other being a 242 Turbo) and an occasional 74 BMW 2002 on nice summer days.
I was thinking of them because I just saw one this past weekend (black) at Lowe’s. It was very clean.
I can’t remember if they came in black and silver or only in black. Or if there was also purple.
I tend to think this way in regards to my 2011 Crown Victoria. Maybe to a lesser degree of exclusivity, however. You hardly ever see them, at least around here in East Tennessee, but when you do it is almost always either donked out or a trashed CVPI, which is unfortunate.
I think cars like the G8 will become the “new old school” for us and Generation X’ers.
I don’t think you can put the CV in the same league, mister. It’s not at all limited in production, and was cost cut to all hell in 1998, worse than the G8 ever was.
I do agree. But 30 years from now you won’t see very many good condition Crown Victoria’s and good luck finding a G8 that hasnt been molested. A shame, too.
The fact that almost every CV gets modded should tell you something about how well they really drive.
When I was shopping around for one I couldn’t help but notice how on the message boards there wasn’t a single stock Vic, according to everyones signatures.
“Drivetrain: 5.0 HO, Explorer cam, FMS 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8″ headers, 2.5″ dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley, SuperCoupe stall converter
Suspension: Bridgestone Protenza G019 225/60/16 on LSC turbines, 1 3/16″ wagon front bar, 1″ PI rear bar, cargo coils, KYB GR-2 front shocks, F150 rear air shocks, big front brakes, ES poly front suspension bushings, 00 CVPI steering box, ES poly body mounts, rear disc brakes”
“89 Colony Park LS Mods>HO, 4 spray injectors, 2.25SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 93 CV radio, Kenwood Speakers, 16″ HPP wheels, 225-60/16 BFG advantage TA’s, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft, HELLA H4’s SS ultras H1 highs.”
A Colony Park wagon with a heated up 5.0 sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to me.
I was gonna put a 347 stroker in a Grand Marquis someday.
Stop making me want to do awesome things like that, my wallet is abused enough.
Old grandpa cars were just made for engine swaps!
Of course, I’d love to piss off the elderly with a black old school 80s DeVille/Bro-ham with some kind of engine swap, loud pipes, mag wheels, and Metallica’s first four albums on cassette tape played as loud as possible. :D
I wouldn’t ruin a nice one like that, though. But a sorta ratty 1500 dollar one that needs paint and some rust repair anyway would be a great candidate.
Some of us old guys like stock Panthers.
I can understand the frustration of seeing a car that you covet modified in such horrid ways. For me everytime I see an E39 M5 with any sort of exterior modification a part of me dies. BUT overall it is their car and their money so I guess that is just the way it is.
When I see an E39 M5, my first thought is …Parts!
This post should include a link to that “Leave Britney Alone!” video.
I totally considered it.
Occasionally, I follow a guy’s olive green G8 V8 on my way to work for a few miles before I hit the highway, and what he has done to that car is terrible:
1. Removed all badging.
2. Did something to the engine somewhere that makes the exhaust stink like raw gasoline, just like the hot-rods of the 60′ & 70s. Better keep your windows closed if you’re behind him!
3. Sounds horrible and doesn’t seem to be that fast for a V8.
In other words, the car appears to be rather clapped-out for what was supposed to be a real good car at one point.
This is what you get when you combine an illegal catless exhaust and a poorly executed tune.
Just keep your damn cats on, people.
Amen, exhausts exist for a reason.
Sigh…such stupid, stupid people.
My car is plenty loud with mufflers and I don’t have running issues nor am I a major polluter.
“The G8 was an aggressively styled car, to be sure, but it had an air of class about it. People who didn’t know exactly what it was often confused it with the car against which it was specifically benchmarked—the E60 BMW 5 series. It was a car that an executive could have driven and not looked out of place.”
Lol. I don’t believe a word of that.
I’ve never seen a G8 that exuded class. I don’t know anyone who would ever confuse one with a BMW. An exec driving it would look completely out of place unless he was known to be a performance car fanatic, and then he’d be seen as being true to himself, despite being an exec.
I guess all the people who stopped me in parking lots to ask if it was a BMW must have been figments of my imagination.
They were just using the car as an excuse to hit on you.
Everyone I knew who bought one was an older, successful male who wanted something more discreet than a European luxury sedan.
Thank you for using the correct form of discreet.
How well did they mask their disappointment when they found out it was a Pontiac?
Looking like a BMW is never as good as a real BMW. The comparison reminds me of when Ford tried to compare their 1977 Granada to a Mercedes; it was embarrassing to everybody involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sblq-CwzEY
Having said that, I liked the G8. But you can’t lose sight of the fact that it was a fairly banal GM mid market sedan that happened to have a big engine and decent suspension.
That’s a funny commercial. Didn’t Chevy compare the Celebrity EuroSport with the 528?
—->”…it was a fairly banal GM mid market sedan that happened to have a BIG ENGINE and DECENT SUSPENSION.” (emphasis mine)
You could kinda say that about a number of performance variants from many different manufacturers. FWIW, I’m looking forward to the 2015 SS with magnaride and a 6 MT.
Actually it was the 6000STE compared to the 528, and it actually faired pretty well in all the rags.
What I’ve learned from commenters today:
You shouldn’t care what other people think about your car—unless it is a Pontiac. Then you should totally care.
Haha,
I don’t really care what people think. I see that you don’t either. I actually agree with your whole article.
Yeah I had a ton of people ask me if mine was an Audi or a BMW. I actually think the G8 was one on the best looking cars available when I purchased it and left mine completely stock.
/Of course mine was sadly a bit of a reliability disaster. Which is why I don’t have it anymore.
@Bark
Don’t you live in Kentucky? That would explain it… :-)
Maybe you can make a little money with referrals to optometrists.
redav “I don’t know anyone who would ever confuse one with a BMW.”
Bark: “I guess all the people who stopped me in parking lots to ask if it was a BMW must have been figments of my imagination.”
LOL, jump to conclusions much? I said I don’t know anyone who would confuse one with a BMW, not that such people don’t exist. More likely, if you are of sound mental health, then people in your area are visually impaired or clueless while the people with whom I associate are not. Another option is that those people assume any car they don’t recognize is a BMW. Maybe they saw the split Pontiac grille and thought BMW, but that’s on par with thinking a Fusion is an Aston Marten.
Same experience. I was asked multiple times if the car was a BMW.
“it look like a BMW until a real BMW roll up”
ROFL
Seriously though, I can certainly see the resemblance.
“An exec driving it would look completely out of place…”
Why? What’s so inherently bad that would cause an exec to not drive a G8 and in your opinion what cars should execs drive but more importantly which cars shouldn’t they drive? Please be specific.
redav’s thinking is how we get stories like the one some commenter told a couple of weeks ago where a junior oil exec was told to sell his perfectly good car and buy a new pickup. I can’t imagine working at a place where my career path was determined by my choice of car.
I drive a G8, and I’m a mid-level professional. No one ever even sees my car, since I take the bus to work (in a city where about half of downtown workers use transit).
Well if you don’t take it to work, then it doesn’t really count in this sort of story we’re telling here, right?
If I did take it to work, no one would notice or judge.
My boss makes around half a million dollars annually and drives a rusting ’02 Forester. To the extent that anyone notices they think she is prudent and discreet. She’s been asking for my help in buying a new Forester to replace it, which she’ll also probably keep for 13 years and run up to a quarter-million miles.
Your place hiring? Sounds like a nice place to grow a career.
Indeed. If you’re in our business and in the right locations, you’ll probably know about us…
dal,
the owner of my company, who is very much a multi-millionaire, drives an Outback wagon. The one time I drove the Firehawk to work last year he thought it was cool. Pretty sure I wasn’t judged or thought of as being white trash at anytime while working here.
“To the extent that anyone notices they think she is prudent and discreet.”
I know a lot of well off people that drive low prestige cars, and it seems to me that’s what people think about their cars – if they think about them at all.
It’s nice to have a fun interesting car if that’s what you want, but most people worth impressing don’t really care what you drive, and in most cases I can’t see someone’s choice of car helping or hurting their career in any material way. It’s far more important to be competent, dependable, and well spoken.
hubcap: “What’s so inherently bad that would cause an exec to not drive a G8 and in your opinion what cars should execs drive but more importantly which cars shouldn’t they drive? Please be specific.”
One, don’t assume that “out of place” is synonymous with “bad.” Two, do not assume that “out of place” equals my judgment of other people. Three, do not assume I said anything about what anyone should or should not drive.
“Out of place” means different than the norm, not aligned with everything else. The social norm for execs that I have consistently seen is that they drive vehicles solidly in the ‘luxury’ category: Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Porsche. Because that is the norm, it is what is expected (because people are good at finding patterns), and when something else is seen, it is “out of place.” I suspect the reasons include desire for prestige, one-upsmanship, narcissism (few people become execs without an exaggerated sense of self and the self-salesmanship to match), and the desire to surround themselves with nice & expensive things. (I’ve also noticed that they have multiple cars, but it’s the luxury car that gets brought to work.)
Now note the rest of my statement regarding that if an exec drives something else, then perception changes. One of our chief engineers drives a Mustang. He is the exception, but the way people view him is as a ‘car guy.’ He’s always driven Mustangs. He goes to NASCAR. He loves discussing engines. As I said, if an exec does drive such a car as a Mustang or G8, then he is seen not as driving an exec’s car, but as “being true to himself” as a car guy.
What I find more interesting is how people get worked up over a statement like “Execs drive luxury cars,” or “People with more money drive more expensive cars,” and then assign moral value to such statements, e.g., “inherently bad.” That implies people take such comments personally as though saying that they are somehow ‘bad’ or inferior because the car they drive isn’t the same.
As anyone ever read the book The Millionaire Next Door? You can’t judge a person’s wealth by what they drive. Last I heard Dick Yuengling of the beer fame drives an old Taurus.
Maybe redav can’t find any resemblance to BMW in the G8, but to me, both the G8 and the 2004-6 GTO were the best late model Pontiacs in dealerships,which is why I’m still stinging from GM’s decision to dump the brand. This from a guy on his second BMW 3-Series.
While I’m of the camp that we are all free to legally modify our cars to whatever extent we want, I never modded my GXP and have no desire to. I have noticed, however, that G8 modders have been around since these cars were new.
Being a fan of orphan brand will only lead to frustration.
Depends on the brand and product. I imagine G8 will have a healthy aftermarket for the near term future, and other models which are clones won’t suffer significant parts issues for a long time (ie W-body).
G8s, all SRTs, Trailblazer SSessess, CTS-Vs, seem to lure terrible owners. I’d totally rock a Magnum SRT8 or Trailblazer SS if I could find one that didn’t brag of 900W stereos or being chipped to make 600hp.
Of course I see no shortage of similarly defiled 6-series BMWs and S-class Mercedes’ once they hit their 3rd owners.
Lets not forget the winners who buy the AMG’s, M’s and Shelby’s, GTI’s… and my favorites, the WRX/STI and ST crowd (I recently added the ST people to the list after dealing with both a Focus and Fiesta owner and seeing that they are almost carbon copies of the WRX/M series crowd around here)
I think it has more to do with the intended use (design? performance?) of the car than the car itself.
It’s just about every car. I parked next to a murdered out-yo!, Toyota Camry with a wing similar in both size and description to that of an 911 GT3 RS. At my gym, there’s a Z4 with various and sundry chrome pieces affixed including two turbo badges as well as a pretty clapped out AMG.
From my experience most owners of performance cars don’t cross the border into gaudy-ville only a select few. I’m guessin’ your experience differs?
I actually like the interior of the G8. Loads of room, comfortable seats and decent materials. You could do way worse.
There is indeed lots of room and comfortable seating, but the materials in my G8 (2009 GXP) are the furthest thing from “decent.” Hard plastic with really odd textures dominates. The leather also feels like hard plastic, and there are rattles galore.
Oh I don’t know. The dash is soft touch plastic and the steering wheel was nice with a great control scheme. The other plastics didn’t seem worse then most other cars in the price range.
/I say this having owned one for 5 years and 50 thousand very troublesome miles.
I don’t know how you had a G8 with a soft touch plastic dash. Mine is hard plastic through and through, both on top and underneath. The only soft touch plastic in my whole car is the “leather” inserts on the door panels.
The steering wheel isn’t bad, although the leather is the same cheap stuff on the seats.
Well I don’t know where you found a G8 with a hard dash. Push on the top, it is soft. The lower dash and the doors are hard plastic but that isn’t unusual in cars in the same price range. My car didn’t have the leather interior but I really liked the cloth fabric. Plus the actual controls were easy to use and well laid out. I test drove a ton of cars in the same price range and the G8 interior was competitive for the time.
Eh, the last brand new car I was in recently, that was big$$ was a Toyota Highlander. I was very surprised that the entire dash and console was hard plastic.
I can push on the top of my dash all I want, and it has the same consistency as my five-month-old’s Fisher-Price toys. No softness whatsoever.
100% wrong.
/This is just getting weird.
I think I know what the dash is like in the car I’ve owned for 5 1/2 years and driven 36,000 miles.
The other problem with the interior is that there is a symphony of squeaks and rattles, and many of them have been there since new.
Are you sure you have a G8 and not a G6? I owned my G8 for more than 5 years and I can guarantee you that the top of the dash is soft.
/Agree with you about the rattles though. They were not crazy bad but they were there.
Ditto, push on my dash and it gives – it isn’t French stitched leather but it is t solid hard plastic either. The glove box door, lower dash panels, and center console plastic are vastly better than the Bonneville and Grand Prix they replaced, but aren’t great. But I strongly disagree they are Cobalt grade.
This is what makes shopping for 90’s Grand Prixs and Bonnevilles hard, everyone gets them and does a bunch of tasteless mods only to sell them once they’ve broken something. Same for Hondas.
I do agree that people should quit screwing up G8s but hey, what can you do?
“The racing car is not a technical exercise. It is not an art object. The racing car is simply a tool for the racing driver.”
– Carroll Smith
If you don’t know who he is, google him.
Funny how some racing cars do end up being very beautiful. Mostly Italian ones, but the British and Germans had their moments too.
In many fields, superior solutions have a bit of elegance or beauty, even if that beauty solely resides in the eye of the beholder. Carroll Smith agrees with Louis Sullivan – “form ever follows function”, something which is lost on many contemporary designers…
If you are managing a racing car team, one thing you better understand is the importance of the race car being a medium to stick advertising on. Ads are easier to sell on prettier cars.
Nice quote, I should tell it to all the kids who’ve been trying to make their own cars into pretend race cars.
I’ve seen a 50 something year old man around here with an 80s Monte SS covered in faux NASCAR decals, who’s going to talk to him? :P
YOU KIDS… GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
I think the current chrysler 300 is more g8 than the current charger. The g8 and the current chrysler 300 are subdued powerful sedans. The charger is definitely more in-your-face for this generation. It was the opposite in the last charger/300 generation and the previous charger/g8 were definitely competitors.
As well as the charger/300 sell around here, I’m a little surprised GM and Ford don’t have anything that competes in the RWD full size sedan segment.
With all due respect welcome the new normal. Rare cars simply do not bring in big money anymore. That died off of the baby boomers and muscle cars. I have a Volvo 850 R wagon (about 2,000 made) that I was gonna sell but the best offer I was able to get was around 4,500. Car is in near mint condition and has tons of life left in it.
So I’m simply going to buy some snow tires for it and just drive it into the ground. I appreciate it’s rarety but it simply isn’t worth preserving because no one’s ever going to pay anything for it. If inclined I wouldn’t hesitate to mod it. Who cares?
Not sure how you’d think a G8 would be any different? 40,000 isn’t even rare.
I’d think you’d need to qualify the above statement with *some* as in some rare cars…
It’s because CARB has ruined what was by far the biggest market for anything 1975 plus. It’s completely ridiculous…If I want a 1992 camaro 25th anniversary edition to re-live owning my first camaro a 1989, and I want throw throw an LS in it, a cleaner more fuel efficient motor, I can’t because of CARB. I might as well just go buy a new or gently used up to date car rather than getting anything classic.
Super
I think there is a distinction you are missing.
Rare doesn’t always mean desirable.
G8’s are holding their resale value very very well (as are GTO’s).
People still want to buy them when a clean one pops up. Especially a GXP.
An 850 R wagon, while cool in its own respect, isn’t really on most people’s radar and not quite in the same circle.
I also didn’t know all the baby boomers were dead! ;) Better tell Mecum to stop airing reruns of its now dead auctions!
As a current Volvo 850 owner, I’d only accept another if it were given to me. I’ve been trying to sell mine at slightly below market value with no luck.
Adding a turbo just makes them bigger headaches.
The rumors of our demise are, as Samuel Clemens said, greatly exaggerated. The recording industry would go broke if there was no one around to buy new copies of Dark Side of the Moon on the latest digital media.
Some rare and oddball cars still bring money (i.e. the Pontiac G8, Lexus SC430, Cadillac XLR of all things) but you’re right something rare like your 850R has limited appeal and a limited audience.
Well look, I wasn’t trying to start a debate of the merits of an 850R v. a G8. The 850R isn’t a desirable car, I get that. I’m not a tasteless moppet so I’m not going to sully it like these sorry and unfortunate G8s but I am going to use it up like a Target toaster. I’m going to drive it in salt, parallel park it in the city, strike the tailgate on shopping carts, throw home improvement items like a toilet or drywall into the back or on the roof, and, probably, leave it somewhere I shouldn’t and get it towed now and then.
Now, a RWD V-8 American sedan with rather non-descript styling and a now defunct brand name isn’t the same thing of course but it shares one key thing in common — it also has limited appeal and a limited audience. As Bark said, prices are low, which reflects that, so there’s no incentive to preserve them. While they won’t get trashed in the same way my baby will, they’ll still get trashed. The comparison is valid in that respect. That’s all I was trying to say.
Super
Did think you were trying to start a debate about the 850R. They are pretty cool if you ask me.
I think the only part of it anyone questioned was the statement;
“Rare cars simply do not bring in big money anymore. That died off of the baby boomers and muscle cars. “
Perhaps that was a slight exaggeration but, realistically, how many modern cars (defining that as post-1990) really bring in the big money? We could list some but not very many, and the majority of those would be exotics or special models (e.g. 2000 Cobra R).
And of course didn’t mean that the Boomers are actually dead, LOL! They’re very much with us. I just meant the era of paying big money for mass produced cars is largely dead, in that they were the last generation to do so.
The simple quality of being “rare” has never guaranteed high values. Some cars are rare because no one wanted them even when new and still don’t. Rare cars that fetch higher than average values typically have the companion quality of being recognized performance models which increases their intrinsic value in the used market, even if the car wasn’t all that special to begin with. Or the car was stupid expensive to begin with and the people who wanted them couldn’t afford them. Unfortunately for you, the market doesn’t really recognize Volvos as ‘performance’ cars, even if they performed decently.
The times of paying stupid high values for certain cars certainly is NOT dead and is NOT solely a baby boomer phenomenon. Cars like the Buick Grand National, MKIV Supra, FD RX7, Terminator Cobras, WRX STis, GT500 Mustangs, SRT Challengers and G8 GXPs prove that point not to mention any air cooled Porsche 911. Even the last of the GM F-bodies fetch relative high values for what they are.
To start a post-1990 “stupid value” list:
1993-98 Supra
2003-present Lancer Evo
2004-present WRX STi
1990-98 air cooled 911
1995-99 E36 M3
1997-98, 2000-01 Integra Type R
1994-96 lmpala SS
Feel free to add!
1991-2002 Firehawks (mostly early and late models)
199x-2002 Camaro SS’s
2005-06 GTO’s
2008-2009 G8s (GT’s and GXP’s)
1998-2004 Cobra Mustangs (Supercharged especially)
Any Shelby Mustang
Any SRT Mopar
Honda S2000’s
3000GTVR4 and Stealth RT/TT
Marauders
Nice! Though some of these can be readily had for less 15k, which really isn’t stupid value. But defining “stupid value” as containing some kind of emotional component which causes the thing in question to transcend what it’s really worth, they do fit.
And we should point out that just because it has stupid value doesn’t mean it’s going to remain stock. Mk IV Supras, Evos, and STis, for example, are sought after because they are stupid fast with a few mods, and most have been slapped around pretty good by the ugly stick at this point.
Another nominee — the VW R32. VW geeks really go ape sh-t over these, though their price premium over a dirt cheap GTI isn’t really justified.
there are certainly more to add to the list, my brain no worky much today.
And we should point out that just because it has stupid value doesn’t mean it’s going to remain stock. True that!
I’d like to add that I’d never ever buy any of these cars if they had any modifications done. For the most part I see the sense in buying used cars to save money, except when it comes to a performance car.
You just got to find the less desirable ones and you can have your cake and eat it too. My dream is to get an LT1 C4 Corvette and beat the living bleepin’ $%^& #^&* out of it with a little SCAA, autocross and drag strip action. They’re cheap enough to justify it, as they never caught on with the bro dawg drifting crowd or the ‘Murican NASCAR set, the two primary demographics which cause stupid value levels in this particular automotive era.
excellent choice. Had a friend with a silver LT4 Corvette. It was a real nice driver. They finally got the C4 pretty refined by that time.
On the other hand, don’t even try finding an affordable LT4 f-body. Prices on those are stupid.
“My dream is to get an LT1 C4 Corvette and beat the living bleepin’ $%^& #^&* out of it with a little SCAA, autocross and drag strip action.”
Same here. I find late C4s very appealing since I’ve had plenty of experience with the quirks of the LT1. I have a complete LE2 headed drivetrain waiting for a clean roller C4 to show up.
Why wait for a roller Danio? They are cheeeeep! One ’93 40th Anniversary model is on ebay at $1,105 with only a few days left. It would probably feel a little loosey goosey with 163k on the clock but it would be fun to wring it’s rickety little neck wouldn’t it? Hahaha!
This is also happening to E92 335i coupes. As they fall to BroDawg-attainable levels, I’ve started seeing very tastelessly modified cars.
The worst offender was wrapped matte-black, which would haven’t been so atrocious except that it wasn’t even kept clean. Then, the satin window accents were Plastidipped red (!!!) and I’m pretty sure all of the BMW logos were also altered.
To top it all off, it had all of the requisite Stance-ish stickers, including a Facebook thumbs-up captioned “You like this.” And it was peeling.
What is your position on putting Holden Monaro panels on G8s or GTOs to make them look like the Aussie original? Also what are your thoughts on Australians putting G8 panels on their Holdens?
I think the Holden front clip on an otherwise unmolested G8 is a bit of an inside joke but not too hideous, as long you don’t go overboard with undeserved HSV stickers.
Doesn’t bother me.
Problem is people buy them on the cheap and end up with a basket case that’s been hacked up and neglected. I paid a little extra for a nice one and it’s been stone cold reliable in the year and a half I have owned it. I trust it enough to rely on.
Ummm…HELLO!! GM will gladly sell you the same car, but sold as the Chevrolet SS…IF I’m not mistaken. It’s been slightly updated, and the starting price is $45K…or something like that. Personally, I wouldn’t buy ANY GM product…the quality is a complete JOKE! But as they say, “a fool and their money…” …I need not say more.
You are mistaken. Do more homework.
It’s the same car/platform dude. Maybe with some updates…and bigger engine. YOU DO SOME HOMEWORK! Even the styling is similar. Maybe that’s why Chevrolet can sell them, because most people can tell. It’s a Holden…same platform as the Caprice Police cruiser. Do some research!
Either way, it’s GM JUNK!
I mean Chevrolet can’t sell them…or even give them away with incentives. Such a stupid company GM. They should have been let to close their doors WITHOUT government help.
I’m sure the G8 and SS will be valuable collector’s items one day, like the Cadillac Catera is. LOL
Kmars
are you having another narrow-minded morning? :) Maybe you need more coffee before you comment?
Thanks for playing Kmars, maybe you need to go back to the Accord an Prius forums?
Sigh. Fine. I will do your homework for you.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1088973_2014-chevy-ss-vs-2009-pontiac-g8-gxp-heres-whats-different
Also, your caps lock is broken.
Ohhhh pardon me! It’s the GEN II version of the same platform. Whateves! It’s still GM JUNK! Also, for poncho, I am a liberal democrat…who has watched GM produce JUNK for decades. The ONLY thing good about saving GM is the jobs. It’s a sad day when even their supposed HALO CAR …the new Corvette, is already being recalled. What a complete joke…and this is the NEW GM?!?!?
Actually, I’m a Mercedes Benz guy.
Getting vaguely back on topic… Bark would you ever consider buying an SS as an indirect replacement for your G8 that you loved so much?
Holy delayed response, Batman!
Yes, I would, especially with the 6MT and magnetic ride suspension.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/05/reader-ride-review-2014-chevrolet-ss/
Hammered a G8 in a test drive, made me wish I had pulled the trigger on the GTO.
Would still like to find a nice one(GTO), but shop space is at a premium, so little room left for cheap toys, and because we are due for a major or catastrophic earthquake, I won’t use the 4-posters for car storage.
We’re not talking unobtanium here, or a unicorn. If you don’t mind driving on the wrong side of the car, we can send you a couple from here with a side of turbo Falcon.
And I’ve seen far worse than that. Specially with garden variety Omegas. Although the locals seem to have more taste, no neon.
The red one is actually not that bad.
Say what you want, the 2010+ Taurus SHO was a better buy in the long run. Cars of this size don’t do well on road courses so the whole RWD is better on track argument is useless. If you wanted straight line power and a great highway cruiser, the Taurus SHO’s interior is better, the tech is better, and the aftermarket potential is a lot better.
The SHO is a cool ride, but lets not kid ourselves. RWD is always better than FWD based AWD, hands down. You can’t mask crappy weight distribution by throwing awd at it.
The G8 has a larger interior than the weirdly crowded for its size Taurus.
I don’t think your going to get the same aftermarket support for an SHO that you get with a LS engine based platform, not to mention all of the available suspension items for the G8/SS/Camaro/GTO platform.
Tech I’ll give you, if that is your thing. I still haven’t figured out the need to have my car tell me what my pulse was at the last apex, but to each their own.
Like dude said, both of these cars are too big for stuff like weight distribution to really be an issue. The dominating attributes of these cars are their size and weight.
G8 still wins out for me as it has stickshift & an honest to goodness V8, and I think better packaging as well. But I don’t think anyone is buying G8s for their dynamic prowess.
Weight distribution isn’t an issue? With all due respect…really?
I suppose that’s why BMW and Mercedes work to get their big cars close to 50/50?
Sure, you can try to compensate for a nose heavy distribution, but in the end it will never feel as good to drive or be as balanced as a RWD car, even during normal driving.
I’m not sur what makes you say any of this. The prices of the SHOs started out higher than the G8 GTs and their values have cratered at a faster rate. As for better aftermarket support, as in performance mods? Not even close.
I don’t know man…your brother showed his preservationist tendencies on that RWB article, but then he was talking about air-cooled Porsches. I didn’t agree with it but at least I understood where he was coming from. This Pontiac though? It’s essentially a body-kitted Australian sedan in the first place, with drivetrain tech that is widely available in both crate and rolling car form. I agree that the mods you are talking about are tasteless, but I feel the same way about them occurring here as I would if they happened on the hypothetical Challenger you threw under the bus. Then again, I made my peace sharing a vehicle brand with the stance crowd so maybe I’ve just been beaten into submission on this topic.
awesome car though, don’t get me wrong. Not my intent to dog on your ride, I just don’t see it as some sort of sacred cow.