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From our friends at Jalopnik comes news that the 3.5L Ecoboost V6 in the all-new Ford Raptor will make 450 horsepower (and weigh 500 lbs less). How about dropping it in the Mustang while we’re at it?
71 Comments on “2017 Ford Raptor Makes 450 Horsepower...”
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Last night the new season of Top Gear UK started, and it’s apparently 10 episodes this time around (like it should be, and like it used to be). In the montage of upcoming events at the beginning, Clarkson was doing some heavy offroading in a Raptor, and launched it off a dirt hill.
Also, the MKS needs an MKS-R version with 450HP.
What is a performance Lincoln? Oh yeah, LSC.
I’m not sure that trim designation works with their new model names. But I did forget all about LSC. Was the Mark VII the last vehicle to wear that name?
(Also I was thinking LSC meant Luxury Sports Coupe.)
They will drop it in the Mustang once they ween people off the V8, who’s days are numbered. Sorry guys, the days of V8 Mustangs are not long for this world. Suck it up and carry on
Naah, it will be around for a while What will happen is that the V8 Mustang will become a softer boulevard cruiser and convertible for senior citizens who want the (played through the speakers) V8 rumble. The engine might get some minor upgrades for emissions, but no new performance variants. The base and performance models will be turbo’ed 4s and 6s. The nonturbo 6 will be dropped late in this generation, though.
Two years and it’s gone, you’ll see. That’s the whole push behind the GT, give the turbo 6 some racing creds then stick it in the Mustang
I can see the Mustang GT and its ilk going 6T to tie in with the GT proper. But dropping the 8 entirely would equal or exceed the outcry when news of the FWD Mustang broke in the ’80s.
Yeah, the same guys who declared the death of the Mustang because of IRS and the death of the Wrangler because of square head lights
The Mustang will have a V8 for the forseeable future. Rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated.
… but is coming
New 2017 Ford Mustang! Now coming with double blow action!
I think most current owners (myself included) would make sizable wagers against that happening. Even with dreams of a world car, almost the entirety of the volume will still come from the USA. The numbers won’t really impact their overall CAFE results. I can’t see the V8 dying _at least_ until the next major overhaul. The V8 in the Camaro and Mustang aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. The people who buy these things don’t want them to.
A reliable source for your info which I hope is not “Horsepower Kings” who apparently retracted their story after Ford produced a statement more or less saying that “Horsepower Kings” was talking out of their ass.
Can you buy the new V-8 Mustang’s soundtrack? I have a Volvo 850 that sounds like an angry vacuum cleaner when you accelerate.
That’s because it *IS* an angry vacuum cleaner
It’ll be around for a lot longer. First of all the V8 Mustang doesn’t count for too many car sales relative to Ford’s overall passenger car sales, so it doesn’t hurt Ford’s CAFE mpg average much. Second, there are many fuel saving tricks Ford hasn’t applied to the Coyote yet – direct injection, cylinder deactivation, start/stop tech, downsizing the displacement. Third, Ford could switch the Mustang to aluminum to save weight and fuel. They could even go crazy and turn it into a hybrid.
They are not likely to downsize the Coyote. If they do that, things tip in favor of the 3.5EB even more.
Ford has said they wont make as extensive use of aluminum in passenger cars as the benefits don’t outweigh the cost compared to their trucks.
Will this engine in this tall beast really get better mileage than a V-8 Mustang, which is a much smaller and lighter package? Maybe the solution is smaller, lighter cars, not to get rid of the V-8.
@Calvin – The beauty of V8s is yet to be realized, on everyday midsize cars/SUVs/pickups. Think back to the days when turbo V6s were only found on Grand Nationals, Syclones, 300ZXs and such. Plus I6 turbos in Supras, 3000GTs, etc. Not exactly for soccer mom mobiles.
V8s in everyday midsize vehicles is just the next evolution. These vehicles will no doubt continue to grow in weight and mass. When there’s a backlash against boost engines, V8s will be waiting in the wings. That’s why OEMs are keeping them on the back burner and ready to pounce with new FE tech. It’s just a matter of time until V8s are truly appreciated. There’s simply nothing better or more efficient for moving 4,000+ lbs (dry weight) vehicles, all things told, except maybe diesels, but that’s another story.
So, then we’re going to return to the ’50s and ’60s?
’50s and ’60s V8s are worlds apart from today’s V8s. But weight is still the enemy of FE. Today’s midsize vehicles have grown to similar weight as ’50s and ’60s America iron.
So we’re just fooling ourselves with high strung and stressed out, small engines. As vehicles continue to grow and current turbo engines age, consumers will likely revolt and say “WTF, might as well have V8s!”
If they could get 30 mpg out of a V8 then I’d say you were on to something, but no
….If they could get 30 mpg out of a V8 then I’d say you were on to something, but no…
I easily got 32 MPG out of my C7, with a seriously green engine no less.
“If they could get 30 mpg out of a V8 then I’d say you were on to something,”
It isn’t hard to sustain over 30mpg in my very V8 Challenger at 50-60mph speeds.
Lie2me has taken this to one extreme by saying V8s will disappear completely, and DenverMike has taken it to the other by saying that they will be the new defacto engine choice. Obviously neither predication will completely materialize, but it’s fun to stake out a position.
Well no doubt OEMs can’t cut all ties with V8s, just in case I’m right. But tell me how the Eco Boost has any significant advantage over the Coyote V8. Never mind reliability. The thing even outweighs the Coyote!!
And the Coyote can be seasoned to well over 500 hp, before adding boost. The Boss 302 was flirting with it with the redline governor off and nothing else.
But V8s haven’t really been tested in say Camrys and such. And 30+ mpg with one? It’s no stretch of the imagination. Bes!des the 30 mpg Corvette that’s hardly tuned or geared for economy, the Mustang GT hits 26, so you don’t think a V8 Camry with economy in mind, (not drag strip performance) plus any new V8 tech can easily beat any turbo 4 or anything gasoline powered, (non V8) you could throw at it? What about when the Camry porks out to 5,000+ lbs??
DM, “might as well have V8s”. That’s my sentiment.
I’m trading my 2011 Tundra 5.7 for a 2016 Tundra 5.7 (with a few extra frills like 4-drs and 4×4) and I am not at all attracted to any V6EB, even one that cranks out 450 horses.
I have to admit that were Toyota to drop the 5.7L for 2016, I would be hard pressed to buy a Ford F-series, but probably a 3/4 ton with the biggest gas V8 I could find.
Blow-hard squirrel engines don’t do a thing for me. Give me the slow-turning, stump-pulling grunt of a gnarly V8 anyday. Hell, a V10 would be even better.
“But tell me how the Eco Boost has any significant advantage over the Coyote V8”
It fits sideways under the hood
Better to let a Mustang ride off into the sunset that let it go without a V8, besides as much as I love Mustangs if GM or FCA offers up a Camaro or Challenger with a suitably powerful V8 compared to a six-pot Mustang I would jump ship with little remorse.
“Suck it up and carry on”
No.
What is the torque curve look like compared to the V8?
I think the real problem I have with this move to smaller displacement engines is that you go, well, so they’ve got 450hp out of the V6 with some FI action on there. What could they have done with a FI V8 instead? It is hard not to feel like we are getting a B effort.
Historically, the Ecoboost V6 has had a superior torque curve to just about any V8. You can get max torque between 1000 and 2000 rpm. I love my Coyote 5.0 but from a performance perspective, the 3.5EBv6 kicks its arse…
When it comes to forced induction vs. natural aspiration, there is no contest. Just turbo the V8 already.
If Ford decides to make a GTDI Coyote, we all win.
So what would an ecoboost v8 look like? That is my point, this tech could be applied to the V8 to get even more.
I wouldn’t call a 450HP/500+ lb.ft of torque truck with a full factory warranty a B effort. If the GTDI Coyote made financial sense, Ford would probably throw it in the Raptor. The beauty of the 2.7/3.5 ecoboost engines is that Ford can throw them into FWD/AWD applications and get more volume while spreading out costs. I don’t see them stuffing a DI Coyote into an Edge or Explorer.
” I don’t see them stuffing a DI Coyote into an Edge or Explorer.”
But, could you just imagine it? Explorer/Edge Hellcat
I was disappointed that the 2.7 isn’t going to be available for the Explorer refresh. I get that the 3.5EB is still there for the Sport, but it would have been nice to be able to snag the 2.7 for less coin. I was hoping they’d bump the 3.5 in the Sport to the Expedition tune to make enough room for the 2.7 between it and the 2.3.
Lie2Me-
It would make me happy to have a 600 HP Flex.
johnny-
The 2.7TT is going to be in tight supply for a couple years. It is just hitting the market as the volume engine for the F150, and getting it into the Edge/MKX is more important than the Explorer right now. Ford cancelled a bunch of employee orders for the Flex (built at the same plant) because of Edge and MKX launches.
Wait – automakers are now announcing product specs almost three full model years before release?
Didn’t anyone learn from the FR-S/BR-Z don’t overhype because you’ll never deliver on the goods experience?
This isn’t an official announcement. Rah Nair was doing an interview during the 24 hours of Daytona and he dropped the 450 number.
If its going to be a ’17 model year, it will start being sold sometime in late ’16. Year and a half lead time isn’t that much. Do you doubt that Ford can turn up the wick on the V6? I’ll bet they already have several mules with 200k miles on them producing 450+ hp.
In its current form, the 3.5EB is pushing 365hp so to bump up the boost a little and net 450 from it isn’t something that would be very difficult. Hell, all it takes to get 455 dyno’d whp from a 2011 EB F150 is an intercooler upgrade, full exhaust (minus headers) and a tuner. My SCT rep buddy is proof of this easy transformation.
The current EB has been turned up to 380 HP and 460 lb.ft in the Navigator. Like you said, getting to 450/500 should be pretty dang easy.
Automakers are allowed to release the next model year in January of the calendar year, so automakers could be advertising 2016 models right now. So at best it’s 1 year ahead.
Which makes me wonder, have any automakers released a 2016 model yet?
Please put this engine in the Mustang. I perfer this over the V8. Or make a Lincoln Mustang with this engine in it so I don’t have to hear people complaining about it in the Mustang.
Coming soon to a Lincoln dealer near you…The Lincoln Mark IX.
The only way it happens is if Fields decides he wants to drag is balls across the hood of a CTS.
I’d miss the sound of the Coyote and its love of revs. I have no doubt they could easily make a 3.5EB quicker than the 5.0. Hell with enough tire and launch control, a 10 speed 3.5EB Mustang could be stonking fast. I just can’t see it happening here until the next generation at the earliest. It will be interesting to see if they try to keep the engine lineup consistent globally if the current generation is even moderately successful elsewhere. An all turbo lineup with the 2.3/2.7/3.5 doesn’t seem too unreasonable in other parts of the world (and eventually here).
Lincoln called. They want this in everything they make….everything.
This isn’t terribly surprising. If Ford wants to do a successor to the GT500 we might see an Ecoboost Coyote, or perhaps they could put it in the Super Duty trucks (with a lot of durability-driven changes).
Surely it would take a stronger transmission to get it into any of the fwd-based vehicles?
The other crystal-ball comment re the V8 being dropped from the Mustang is that I would bet they would go to a 4.3L V8 (260ci) or even lower rather than drop the V8 altogether, with or without turbos. A 2.7L V8 Ecoboost that still sounded like a V8 (and it should) would be fine with me.
Judging some of the comments by our dedicated V8 hoons, it appears they can’t see the forest through the trees.
The V8 will die slowly, just like the large and cumbersome US land barges of yore.
The 5 litre Coyote will be dropped once the 2.7 EcoBoob has been ironed out. Future aluminium F-150 owners will wear this one.
The 3.5 EcoBoob is the replacement for the 6.2 V8. Except Ford can’t use it in it’s HDs because of the 3.5’s terrible FE when expected to generate a bit of torque and power, ie do some real work.
So, I predict the future Mustangs will have the 3.5 EcoBoob, 2.7 EcoBoob and believe it or not the 2 litre EcoBoob (not the 2.3 EcoBoob).
The 2 litre EcoBoob will be for the wanna be types and hairdressers.
With 450hp from the 3.5 EcoBoob it will interesting to see if Ford will produce a grenading engine. I’d say 80% of the Raptors sold are sold to people who don’t have a clue. The look at me types. These guys probably talk to their friends about that cowboy movie…..Cracked Ass Mountain or what ever it was called, thinking they are cool and liberal.
P.S. Some of the content in this comment is humourous…..to me anyways;)
You’d wet your shorts for the opportunity to own a Raptor
Your right, the content of your comment is quite humorous, just not for the reasons you think
@Lie2me,
Read between the humour. You tend to convey the impression that you have some smarts. Well show it for once.
I doubt I would wet my shorts for a Raptor there are better off road pickups available.
You mean cheaper, what does a Raptor go for there, $150-175K? Too bad about that nasty ol’ luxury tax
You’re exaggerating. As the last batch had a starting price of about A$120k, they’ll probably sell the next one for about US$90k, plus GST (sales tax.)
That’s a bargain compared to the US, where they sell for half that price. Or something like that.
Ahem…
Used Raptors – $119,000- $146,500
http://www.carsales.com.au/car/ford/f150/svt-raptor-badge/
@Lie2me,
Now after reading the responses from yourself and your “lifestyle companion” Pch, you should be able to see why I do put in my comments as I do.
Like I stated read between the lines of my comment. The 5 lite will be replaced by the 2.7 EcoBoob.
It’s all about costs to you guys?
At least we can buy a converted, yes converted Raptor. Can you guys can’t even buy a global Ranger.
If you did it would cost over half a million, minimum.
So, where are your BT50s, Amaroks, global Rangers, etc? You the US couldn’t afford them and your draconian laws won’t allow them to enter the US.
Big al what off road pickups are better?
This is the best pickup globally.
And, it’s from the Germans’
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1311_2014_mercedes_benz_g63_amg_6x6_first_drive/
Al,
Maybe you wouldn’t sound like such a buffon if you didn’t type “EcoBoob” in your post at least eight times. I’m not a fan of the “EcoBoost” marketing theme either, but settle down dude. You don’t even try to diguise your trolling anymore. And yes, I work for Ford marketing, and Pch is a paid UAW blogger.
@bball40dtw,
Your sounding on par with Pch101, the goose.
You accept their scribes and yet you chastise me?
Get on your bike. It appears I do have more knowledge regarding vehicles than you guys like to credit people for.
I don’t write comment on TTAC to be someone’s friend, this isn’t Facebook.
If you are after some electronic friendship go to another site.
Al-
I like the V6 ecoboost engines. I do not like the marketing of them with the green leaf and “eco” name. I just could do without the pickuptruck.com tone. People disregard everything you have to say when you type posts like the one above.
I also disagree about the 2.7TT replacing the Coyote. That is not a story written in stone. If the Coyote continues it’s current take rate, or somewhere close, Ford won’t drop it. The 3.5TT wasn’t expected to be the premium F150 engine, but sales/performance against the 5.0L and 6.2L made it that.
“I don’t write comment on TTAC to be someone’s friend, this isn’t Facebook.”
Why do you write comments that are biased and decidedly anti-American? What’s in it for you to malign our country, it’s policies and laws? We don’t go out of our way to do the same about your country, even though when it comes to importing cars, trucks etc. you critiquing us is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Few here understand or care what your motives are and just dismiss you as being nothing more then an internet troll, but one has to wonder why you waste so much time on deaf ears
@Lie2me,
Anti-American comments???
Because I called the EcoBoost the EcoBoob? Are you a joker or a fool.
Did you know the we do have the 2 litre EcoBOOB in Australia and it’s from Spain, not the US.
So the 2 litre EcoBOOB comment can be construed by you as anti-Spanish.
Also, lame one, most comments on TTAC are from Americans. So naturally I will have more negative comments to the “Amercian” commenters.
Do you understand probability, of did you only make it to the 6th grade??
I like that Ford is keeping the Raptor alive and advancing it…just not sure about the 3.5. I love the 6.2 in my ’12 Raptor, a truck like this begs for a V8. But we’ll see….I’ll certainly test drive one, just not sure how it can be better on fuel with 35″ tires and 4.10 gears spinning at 7000 RPM.
It’s going to have an AWD/4WD setup. On road, you can use the electronic AWD. Off road, 4WD is mechanically engaged like before. That should be good for an EPA MPG or two.
Yes but on road you keep the raptor in 2wd the awd setting will burn fuel cause the transfer case is still transferring power to the front. Also the 5.4l Raptors typicly get 2-4 mpg better than the 6.2s so I think the ecoboost will get better FE than the 6.2. But IDK if it will be better than the 5.4. (Some of us raptor owners care about fuel economy) regardless I plan on buying one as my raptor currently has 86k hard miles on it.
This is the best pickup globally.
And, it’s from the Germans’
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1311_2014_mercedes_benz_g63_amg_6x6_first_drive/
The EB motor will return better FE as long as its not producing power on par with the 6.2 as soon as the EB is up on boost its FE advantage is diminished as it takes as much fuel (or typically more in the case of a boosted engine) to make the same power.
The EB six might have an advantage in friction as it has fewer moving parts in the block (the heads might be a wash as the 6.2 is a SOHC 2v engine) but in terms of peak power that could be a wash as well if it takes more RPM to get that power as friction increases with the load imposed by higher RPM.
Big al yes the g63 6×6 has some nice features a ceter locking diff like the new raptor supposedly has. And tire deflation inflation system on board but who is going to go off raiding in a merc that starts at over half a million dollars. To put it another way you could buy 10 fully loaded Raptors is it ten times better than a raptor off road? Where can it go that a raptor cannot. Richard hamond will probably be the only one to take it off road.