Nick writes:
I bought a used 2008 Volkswagen Golf R32 with 48,000 miles in January 2010 (5,000 only in the U.S., 3.2-liter NA V6). Every summer since then I’ve had issues as the weather warms up. Basically, it starts to act up when driving at around 85+ miles-per-hour or so, and it gets even worse if I’m stuck in any kind of stop-and-go traffic. The only sure fix is letting it sit and cool off for 30 minutes or longer.
Typically, right after starting off at a light, I’ll get a second or two of power before the power suddenly drops off and the car kinda burbles and burps. The tach will start to jump if I mash the throttle, but otherwise the revs stay on the low end of the gauge. When forced to drive in this condition, the computed mileage doesn’t seem to suffer, but going something like 20 miles once drained a quarter of a tank. More recently, for the first time ever, it actually died in an intersection and the battery light came on. Once I got it stopped and in park, it restarted fine.
I don’t get backfires. Others said they’ve noticed a strong gas smell at the car’s rear but I don’t think they observed drips.
I love the car except for this problem no one can figure out. The only theory others have offered is a fried fuel flow sensor. With the gas and recent engine stall, I wonder if it’s just flooding the engine or something.
Sajeev answers:
This has to be vapor lock!
Considering how jammed in that motor is in a VW Golf, the comments on this forum and the extensive diagnosis (?) time you’ve spent with mechanics — man, it’s gotta be vapor lock.
But how do you fix it?
You must protect the fuel line(s) from engine heat. Odds are that the area shown in the forum link needs said protective shielding, but there’s a chance that shielding isn’t enough: it can only do so much in an cramped compartment so thoroughly heat soaked. Cooling down a heat soaked shield could be worse than the initial problem, but try shielding the fuel rail first.
If that fails…dare I say it? It’s time for a boy-racer aftermarket hood with scoops, vents or something — anything to expose the engine to outside air. Maybe you can get a carbon fiber one if you like that look. I personally dig this unit if painted to match the rest of the car, but maybe it’s not vented aggressively enough for the VR6 motor.
Regardless, it’s certainly better than the stock hood, though you can also cut holes in your hood and install any sort of vent you wish. Hmm, the scoops from the 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe would look pretty sweet.
Off to you, Best and Brightest!
[Image: Shutterstock user wavebreakmedia]
Send your queries to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.
“I bought a used 2008 Volkswagen Golf R32”
Well there’s your main problem.
Nope. Says bought in 2010 – that was 5 yrs ago – and no other problems.
I know, I know… VW amirite.
What state do you live in and at what elevation?
I am not the person who posted the query bball… but i have had a similar experience with a similar powertrain. See my note below. I have followed your troubles with the R32, but they pertained to southern heat – maybe not the case in cold climates.
I never had the issue in Michigan. The desert heat is what did it in. I liked the car enough to replace it with another VW.
“…it starts to act up when driving at around 85+ miles-per-hour or so…”
We would think a German-engineered VW would be designed to cruise at Autobahn speeds for hours, but apparently not!
The problem for me was 80+ MPH and 100+ degrees at 3500+ feet of elevation.
PTVAGD
That is so helpful… because only VW cars ever have any mechanical issues.
The owner states that starvation occurs both in moving traffic at 80+MPH and in stop and go traffic. This would suggest that the cause is not related to a lack of airflow over fuel components. Therefore, hood cops and additional ventilation will not yield any benefit. It is not a 351/400M. Additional airflow past the carb is not exactly applicable here.
The proper way to diagnose the issue is to check fuel pressure, including monitoring pressure while driving. If you observe a pressure drop correlated to starvation, you can begin to address the cause.
1. Filter restriction, or
2. Defective fuel pressure sensor, or
3. Bad fuel pump- I’m guessing that there is a lift pump and a rail pressure pump- but I am not familiar with the R32 motor.
It is an interesting car and worth fixing. Start with a fuel pressure test.
-Mike
I would have a similar opinion; HPFP or cam follower, low pressure in-tank fuel pump, or an associated sensor. Before today I had not heard of a case of “vapor lock” in +20 years. It goes to show you that VW always lets down with their POS vehicles.
O.P. take BBAll’s suggestion and dump it!!!
Yes. I have this car it’s a real piece of . It’s not vapor lock though. The fuel tank has a design flaw and it builds up vacuum and starves the fuel pump.
Former MkV R32 owner here. It’s vaporlock. My R32 had it. I bought the car new, in Michigan. Then I moved to Tucson and it vaporlocked all the d@mn time. I ended up selling it a guy that didn’t live in the desert Southwest. I made sure to inform him of the vapor lock issue before the sale.
Get rid of it.
I’ve had mine in West Texas for 8 years and never had an issue. I did get the charcoal canister recall done too though.
I experienced vapor lock too, in an equal-to-VW reliable Dodge Dynasty. It went without diagnosis until my parents dumped it. Oh pre-Internet times.
It’s almost hard to believe someone has a problem with an MKIV VW, or any VW for that matter. They’re the most reliable, luxurious, and sporty’s car’s available today. Regularly I have seen a Sirocco’s trounce M3’s at stop lights and also 911’s. VW is an honest company building good car’s.
“VW is an honest company building good car’s.”
LOL
iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg
Definitely a case of improper fuel maintenance. Maybe he should buy a Corolla instead?
This problem doesn’t exist in Europe. Superior German engineering on the R32 simply rejects America’s arrogantly high temperatures and swill fuel quality.
Lately, I’ve found myself really looking forward to Corey’s posts. The above post is a shining example of why I do. Hilarious.
What’s so hilarious? The punctuation?
:D
Is vapor lock even possible with fuel injection? I always thought that was a carburetor thing.
Indeed it is, see examples in comments below.
yes and there are no online and print media that shill for the best bro brand in the whole world
It sounds like vapor lock, but fuel lines, fuel pump and/or fuel filter could be the cause. Have those been checked?
if it is vapor lock , can you do something with the grill to open it up to get more air in? I think Corey must have been cut off by a VW today as he is more angry at VW than usual.
I have expressed a normal amount of VW irritation.
He has a point, though. I have a VW and I love it, but that love exists because the car doesn’t trouble me. No car of recent vintage should have widespread vapor lock issues, it’s ridiculous. If mine started acting up that way, I’d drive it into a tree to collect the insurance payout.
You have the 5-cylinder with the 5-speed, right? You’ll be fine.
And it will SLAUGHTER a vapor-locked R32 down the onramp!
I had an ’08 R32…died on me coming out of a turn and wouldn’t restart. If I remember correctly it was the fuel pump that needed to be replaced. Also, if I remember correctly, prior to it dying on me, it was replaced due to a recall by VW. When they performed the recall work, they accidentally did something to the new pump…that is why it died on me. Might check to see if there are any open recalls…..
R32 loves to eat fuel pumps.
Perfectly reasonable. Everyone knows that fuel pumps are normal maintenance items.
I’m surprised it’s not part of the 40K mile maintenance.
Ahh,
you beat me to it.
Is it part of the 60K or 80K mile maintenance? I wouldn’t be surprised.
I know spark plugs were supposed to be replaced at 40K.
Based on my 300k car, a fuel pump in my one data point tends to last 180k or so….I’m good for another year.
LOLLL
The recall was related to the vapor recover system and not the fuel pump, if he hasn’t had the recall done that could be his issue.
I think you just diagnosed the undiagnosable problem my very first car had. 3 different mechanics didn’t get there at the time and in the end I sold it for scrap.
“…it starts to act up when driving at around 85+ miles-per-hour…”
The proposed ODB-III protocol will prevent vapor lock by stopping scofflaws.
What? Texas has toll roads that have 85 mph speed limits. So 85 plus or minus the 2.5% means you could be going as fast as 87.125 completely legally in Texas.
Also, honestly you could be going more like 95 before any cop is going to even consider doing anything about the discrepancy.
Good to know; I thought the highest in the US was 80. Of course, my comment was meant in jest.
I’d go with fuel pump issues also. I just read a Car Talk forum reply that said if the fuel pump isn’t delivering pressure way above the vapor pressure of the fuel, then at high temps the fuel will evaporate. E-10’s vapor pressure is 15 psi at some standard temp, while straight gasoline’s is 6-10 psi.
I also wonder about fuel pump cooling. Does the vapor lock ever occur with a full tank of nice, cool gasoline?
Mine did. It is really dependent on temp and elevation.
I’m 99% sure the vwvortex.com has the answer you seek.
BART’S THOUGHTS: Remember what I told you… Just one thing… My car broke down… I’m Joe Namath… My car broke down… It was just vapor lock… vapor lock… vapor lock…
I think I have a similar problem, but I am not sure.
I have a well-loved, reasonably well-maintained 2005.5 Audi A4. It has a similar powertrain to yours (unless you drive stick) which is the 3.2l (well 3.1 but who’s counting) na di and 6AT.
I have had it for 40k miles (currently 123k) and love it dearly.
It has done what your R32 does exactly twice. Both in the dead of winter, both after 300 miles of highway driving (65-90 mph), followed by stop-and-go approaching either Holland Tunnel or GWB in NYC. First time freaked me out as I could see the tunnel when it started burbling, unable to maintain RPM at 800. I was worried it would damage the transmission. 30 minutes later problem disappeared. Second time around I knew what it was, didn’t sweat it, managed it in 2nd gear, stopped doing it. Long story short – looks like some sort of vaporlock, and maybe more common in the V6es.
On a side note, something now makes noise in cold mornings, especially when turning the wheel. Let’s see if TTAC is right and vdub monsters are coming to get me finally.
Not the same motor or drivetrain.
The VW is transverse VR 6, your Audi is a longitudinal 90 degree DOHC V6.
Has this recall been performed?
Recall Number: 09V093000
Recall Date: 03/20/2009
Component: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE:TANK ASSEMBLY
Problem Summary: VOLKSWAGEN IS RECALLING APPROXIMATELY 5,000 MY 2008 R32 (5TH GENERATION) VEHICLES. WHEN CERTAIN DRIVING CONDITIONS ARE ACCOMPANIED BY HIGH AMBIENT TEMPERATURES, THE FUEL TANK VENTILATION VALVE MAY NOT REMAIN FULLY CLOSED. IF THIS HAPPENS, LIQUID FUEL MAY ENTER THE FUEL TANK VENTING SYSTEM AND MIGRATE INTO THE EVAPORATIVE SYSTEM, SATURATING THE CARBON CANISTER. SHOULD THIS OCCUR WHILE DRIVING, THE VEHICLE MAY EXPERIENCE PERFORMANCE ISSUES (I.E., VEHICLE JERKING) AND THE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) IN THE INSTRUMENT CLUSTER COULD ILLUMINATE. FUEL COULD LEAK FROM THE EVAPORATIVE SYSTEM LEAK DETECTION PUMP FILTER.
Consequence: A FUEL LEAK, IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE, COULD LEAD TO A VEHICLE FIRE.
What Owners Should Do: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FUEL TANK VENTILATION VALVE WITH AN IMPROVED VALVE FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING MAY 2009. OWNER MAY CONTACT VOLKSWAGEN AT 1-800-822-8987.
Read more at http://www.cars.com/recalls/volkswagen/r32/#mwbMtKOuXvYk3pgq.99
Ahhhh – now this makes sense.
So it’s NOT vapor lock in the traditional sense, where the liquid fuel turns to a vapor inside the system prior to the point of air mixture.
This is an over-rich mixture situation, where rogue fuel vapors are swamping the engine via the charcoal canister vacuum purge line, to the point that the engine can barely run if at all.
So it shouldn’t be called vapor lock because it isn’t.
dumping tons of unburnt fuel into the cylinders, sounds safe
“I love the car except for this problem no one can figure out. The only theory others have offered is a fried fuel flow sensor. With the gas and recent engine stall, I wonder if it’s just flooding the engine or something.”
So “no one” can figure out how to search TSBs or recalls or service campaigns, but put up with a problem like this for five years?
Yes, it’s a VW and it’s a problem…but they had this sussed out by the time these cars were a year old…had it figured out before this guy even bought the car. Moral of the story…regardless of the make or model of the car, new or used…you have to do your legwork and your homework.
I had that recall done and still had the vapor lock issue. Phoenix and Tucson are outliers though. There is a reason auto companies do testing down there.
vapor lock ? Is that even possible with FI ?
Last time I saw that, it was a 1979 Turbo Mustang with the horrid first attempt turbo. Problem was a “draw through” design with non pressurized carb, which on hot summer days (Black car, NYC pavement, stop and go traffic) fuel would pool in the long intake runners. (no intercooler here). boom boom stall.
Oh yes they can. My dad’s ’77 Rabbit had FI and was notorious for vapor lock. Fun childhood memory: Stalling out in a drive-through safari park with the car literally surrounded by lions.
One of the two fuel pumps were bad. And yes, there were two fuel pumps. THe main pump up by the engine and a boost pump in the tank.
Lots of people with Mitsu-engined Chrysler products experienced vapor lock in the late ’80s and early to mid ’90s.
Step 1 is always buy a VCDS because you will need it again remember you bought a VW.
Step 2 is pull fault codes
Step 3 is post fault codes
Yes VAG com is the way to go, take your laptop in the car leaeve it plugged in and log the fuel pressure values.
Bought a VAGCOM 8 years ago, still unused except to get a free 6 pack from people wanting to change something.
Can’t get this URL thing working properly, but there is a Simpsons quote to go with any subject.
https://frinkiac.com/?p=caption&q=vapor+lock&e=S09E06&t=1300815&m=+BUT+THERE%27S+NOTHING+FUNNY+ABOUT…+VAPOR+LOCK.+IT%27S%0A+THE+THIRD+MOST+COMMON%0A+CAUSE+OF+CAR+STALLINGS.
Definitely sounds like fuel vaporization–aka ‘vapor lock’–in the fuel lines. Cars with side-draft carburettors located above the exhaust manifold, like my Healeys, often have this problem. When I shut down a Healey engine for a brief period–long enough to, say, get lunch–then restart I get hesitation and stumbling until airflow through the engine compartment has cooled things down a bit. It may be ‘correlation without causation,’ but this problem only started when I had to start using E10, as pumps with real gasoline are getting scarce. I suspect the ethanol in fuel contributes to this.
The hot engine start procedure for fuel-injected piston aircraft engines usually requires a ‘purge’ of the fuel system; which entails running the electric boost pump with full rich mixture for several minutes to both push the bubbles through, and to cool the lines. A stumbling engine on take-off is a bit unnerving.
If the exhaust manifold is located anywhere near a fuel system component a wrap or ceramic coating–e.g. ‘Jet Hot’–might help.
I had vapor lock with a 1996 Olds Ciera, fuel injected engine. Hot summer days after it was parked at various shopping stops. Cure was to pop the hood and let it cool. If the VW is vapor locking, the cures are to avoid ethanol if at all possible, run a cooler thermostat, and as well opening the hood when parked to cool it off.
Could this be a missing/damaged under-the-engine cowling causing poor airflow? I had a mid-2000s bug for a while and it had a really tight cowling below the engine. And, it had been damaged. I could see one of these forcing airflow around the upper parts of the engine compartment. More specifically, I can see where if this was missing you’d lose airflow out the bottom of the engine compartment.
Seems like if it’s an airflow thing that developed later in life this could have gone missing or gotten damaged.
Or I could be making ~***} up.
My brother has a 2010 Taurus SHO. He was experiencing a stumble problem, fuel starvation. They traced it to fuel line close enough to exhaust to cause problem. They (Ford dealer) put insulation/heat shield over fuel line. Problem went away and has never come back (3+ years later).
I’d blame the fuel pump. The Bosch pumps on my old Volvos get really cranky when the weather gets hot, you can hear them groaning. When one of them started going bad, the failure mode was inability to maintain fuel pressure when accelerating leading to engine cutting out for half a second as it kept gasping air. Eventually it would just stop running until the pump cooled off.
You can’t get vaporlock in a fuel injected engine unless the fuel pressure is below specifications. Carbureted cars get vaporlock because they only use 8 PSI. More then that and the float valve won’t close. Fuel pressure in a Fuel injected system is much higher.
Something is restricting the fuel flow and causing low pressure in high demand situations. Filter, blocked line, bad fuel pump(s), or a partially failed fuel pressure sender. Get a mechanical fuel pressure test set from Harbor Freight and go for a spirited drive with a buddy to watch the gauge. It should drop significantly from the reading at idle.
dtmcdani called it. All lot of owners reviewing the car on Edmunds.com say they have had stalling and hesitation issues due to a saturated charcoal cannister/ faulty purge valve.
I’m sorry, but I don’t actually see how it could be true vapor lock. All fi cars have a return line back to there tank so there is constantly a flow of fresh cool fuel. I could see the possibility of the vapor canister saturated with raw fuel possibly. Or a weak fuel pump or regulator causing low fuel pressure.
Just because I love being pedantic, (and don’t have any specific knowledge on the R32), not all fuel injected systems use a return fuel line. Though considerably less common, there are cars that use a returnless system where the fuel pressure regulator is located at the tank, bleeding off excess fuel pressure right at the pump.
Modern fuel injected cars have a single fuel line. There is no longer a return line.
Right you are.
That’s what I get for focusing more on late-nineties designs and therefore presuming that returnless was an outlier. Sure enough, it seems that most, if not all, of the major manufacturers have gone returnless.
I hope you read this because it is probably NOT vapor lock. This is a fuel pump problem. The in-tank pump overheats and fails. Once it cools down, it’ll restart and run fine. The pump will diagnostic test just fine in the shop, but it will strand the dealer mechanic five miles down the road on a hot summer day. Once the pump was swapped out, no more problems.
Not sure what causes the pump to fail the first time, but most of the cars I’ve seen with that problem either got gas with water (premium in low traffic areas) or had a high ethanol content.
In every case, replacing the pump solved the problem. Believe me, when customers say they can only drive their car at night or when it is cold, you pay attention.
Yes. I have this car it’s a real piece of . It’s not vapor lock though. The fuel tank has a design flaw and it builds up vacuum and starves the fuel pump.