The Truth About Cars has always valued its knowledgeable, insightful, and outspoken commenters. It’s because of this that I’ve let you, the Best & Brightest, police yourselves.
With this approach to our community that exists below the articles, it was my hope that you’d become a chaff-shedding strain of wheat, dispensing with those who offer little in favor of focusing on those who offer much.
However, as is the case, sometimes the only person heard on a street is the one shouting through a megaphone.
I’m here to take that megaphone away — then give it back.
Yesterday’s takedown attempt of Mark Baruth wouldn’t be remarkable if it wasn’t a consistent motive from certain members of B&B’s chorus. It’s remarkable in its predictably. Before I hit the “Schedule” button in WordPress, I immediately knew what would happen.
What I didn’t know at the time was this: some of you would be so fed up with the current discourse that you’d take time out of you days to send me full-blown letters, properly spaced, with your real names digitally emblazoned at the bottom.
In response to the latest attack against one of our writers and you, we’ll be making the following changes:
- We’re going to rewrite the commenting rules and make sure you read them.
- Those rules will emphasize bans for personal attacks, conspicuous self-promotion, and trolling.
- We will allow the B&B to police themselves in a more formal fashion.
While the B&B will have little involvement in the first two points, it has everything to do with the third numbered bullet.
Starting today, we are on the hunt for moderators to help cooler heads prevail within our community. If you are interested, shoot me an email. We’ll pick more than one, and those people will be required to work together to make the comments a better place for all involved.
Until then, slàinte mhath!
Something something something BTSR….
Say my name three times in a row and your soul will burn in my HELLCAT’s gas tank for more Horsepower.
Won’t that ruin the interior?
Half Man, Half STP Octane Booster
I believe the words you are looking for, is “In before BTSR”
How unfortunate. Since I know the answer, “A good guy who drives a Fist and used to drive a Boss” to the question, “Who Is Mark Baruth?”, I skipped the article. Sounds like it was for the best.
I didn’t know that there was an attack against my good friend Jack Baruth.
Why ?
Could someone fill me in on the broad strokes?
I’m thinking DeadWeight’s jealousy/emotions got the better of him, like always, only he unloaded on the wrong person.
If he were banned forever, TTAC would be a better place.
Nobody is getting banned based on what happened yesterday.
If yesterday’s transgressions weren’t bannable, what are? Only bannable offense that wasn’t committed was the self-promotion, though arguably the sheer volume of dude’s inflammatory posts could count as that too.
If you want a site with more strict tolerance you should try Jalopnik, where saying “Mazdas rust” or “This ancient Volvo was bad” can get your comments put on “awaiting moderation” indefinitely.
Because instituting a law today and applying it against what someone did yesterday is unfair and unjust.
“Because instituting a law today and applying it against what someone did yesterday is unfair and unjust.”
So what’s your point? This isn’t real life, this is the Internet.
If this is based on what happened yesterday, then I’d recommend you go back and re-read the exchange. I’m not defending deadweight (I think he’s often abrasive and looking for a fight, even though I don’t know why), but it seems to me that had Mark not dignified his vitriol with repeated responses, the whole thing would never have reached the level of nastiness and credibility that it did in the end. As for the rest of us, the simple ability to mute those members of the B&B that a user finds offensive is the best kind of “policing” there is. Everyone retains their right to say what they please, and those with constitutions delicate enough to crumble at the first sign of meanness or naughty words can just opt out without leaving altogether.
I think this is absolutely true. The douchbaggery-brinkmanship was unwarranted, however in Bark’s defense, there was no other recourse at the time. I think stooping to DW’s level unnecessary, but it appears that in the future, instead of Bark-level responses, we can expect moderation of the initial comments when they start to derail the convo, hopefully avoiding this sort of thing in the future?
“but it seems to me that had Mark not dignified his vitriol with repeated responses, the whole thing would never have reached the level of nastiness and credibility that it did in the end. ”
what a load of horsecrap. this is like a three year old claiming a fight wasn’t his fault because the other kid hit back.
like rappers say, “don’t start none, won’t be none.”
Just read it. Mark, not Jack.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/06/barks-bites-bark-listen/
I’ve never read anything by Bark, so now I’m slightly curious (but not curious enough to actually provide a click).
For purposes of this article, I think it’s best to read what actually happened rather than someone else’s paraphrasing.
Am I the only TTAC member that doesnt get Mark or Jack confused?
Apparently. I’d also like Jack confirmation that BTSR is a “good friend.”
We’re totally down.
We’re gonna roll a HELLCAT to the Iron Triangle in Queens and slay some broads.
Fair enough, I felt compelled to fact check.
Man, that sounds like a good time.
Iron Triangle: for when I want a taste of Russian car repair ‘flava’ (along with every other sort of immigrant car flipper/repair/chop shop) without leaving the confines of the States.
I’ve figured it out! BTSR is actually Rodney!
(I kid, I kid… even though that would be damn funny)
I don’t get them confused, I don’t even relate them to one another in my thoughts.
I don’t get them confused. They have their own personalities that are present in their writing.
I don’t either.
Good, so thats 5 of us.
My trick is pretty much this:
FiST = Bark
Women and Racin = Jack
I just always use long hair / short hair technique.
I just don’t see how anyone could possibly confuse them.
Bark has a pretty matter-of-fact style, writes a lot about dealers and car buying, writes a lot about Fords, tells stories of normal family and working life, and expresses pretty standard conservative political positions.
Jack has a flamboyant and often hyperbolic style, writes a lot about road trips and/or track misadventures in weird cars, is increasingly into motorcycles, writes a lot about past adventures with strange women, can’t resist sentimentality, and has political views that are a weird mix of alt-right schlock on gender issues and 1920s-era Progressivist populism.
One of these things is not like the other.
I never confused them either. I use a slightly modified technique from @Ryoku75
FiST = Bark
Fast Cars and Fast Women = Jack
Well, I know that I don’t often confuse them…most of my comments are pretty straight-forward, and both of them are pretty bright fellas. Why?
I just read it. No surprise, DW showing his @$$ and making a fool out of himself.
It was far from an attack. It’s called discourse. Some do not recognize discourse, because they retreat to their safe space, in typical millenial fashion.
“Discourse” does not require personal attacks. If your argument isn’t strong enough to stand on its own without resorting to petty schoolyard behaviour (by *either* party I might add), then it is likely a very weak position indeed.
Claiming you are being silenced by “safe space” proponents isn’t a shield against the consequences of douchbaggery. :)
Again, “DW didn’t use personal attacks”…its very clear to “anyone” that can read what DW wrote in response to the BM’s article. BM was the one whom actually responded to DW with name-calling almost immediately when DW asked legitimate questions. DW actually had cogent thoughts and questions throughout. BM went to his safe space immediately, and responded with the old “troll” routine right off the bat. You actually get a point for when you say,
“If your argument isn’t strong enough to stand on its own without resorting to petty schoolyard behaviour…then it is likely a very weak position indeed.” Indeed, BM was very weak, I’ll agree with you there.
DW actually continued on with legit questions, but since BM (him), wasn’t having it…DW had to speak in a language “he/him” understood due to BM’s failure to “recognize” discourse.
That’s a problem with “people” today…a “general lack of reading comprehension,” and brainwashed whilst in school to side with “the”, or “any” “authority’s/authorities’ ” propaganda and spew and parrot whatever they say, regardless of how wrong or untruthful it may be.
Like I said before and I’ll say it again, some “do not” “RECOGNIZE” (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/recognize} “discourse,” because “they” retreat to their “safe space”, a modern day psychological construct of the most recent generation as a result of vigorous, anti-intellectual programming techniques in schools today. BM didn’t recognize it. Thank you for proving my original point. I agree that BM was being a douchebag with DW, and now as a result of the safe spacer mentality, we will get mods, as a result of said “consequences of douchebaggery”.
“You must love the taste of boots!!!”
Toodles :)
Thank you for making my case for me. <3
Man that’s like something a true car hipster douche would say!
It’s a conflict of interest for TTAC to simultaneously announce a new and troll-free commenting system and for BTSR and Jack to affirm their BFF relationship. I feel measurably dumber after reading the road-side carnage that is BTSR’s comments. The other sites I frequent (but won’t list here for fear he’ll migrate there) are conspicuously free of self aggrandizing and hackneyed political blather. It’s frustrating to see TTAC’s comment section repeatedly pulled into the morass of topics that ignite the simmering angers THAT MANY OF US READ AUTO BLOGS TO ESCAPE. Dead Weight’s inexplicable vendetta against Bark is odd, but at least his is not a partisan shotgun blast to half the readership’s faces.
I’m *just* a commenter. I can’t threaten in any meaningful way to leave. I don’t have a subscription to cancel or advertising to pull, but I know I’m speaking for many thoughtful souls who don’t wish to be combative when I state – TTAC should axe political commentary when it’s not relevant. Bragging about Youtube income, the Hellcat, whatever, no problem, even I get a chuckle at the comic stupidity of it – but bring the hammer down on the partisan BS.
What don’t you get about keeping pets?
@Kenmore – pets are good if they are potty trained.
So has BTSR thrown his hat in the ring to be a moderator yet, he is always cool , calm and above the fray. I must have missed the fireworks in Bark’s article, because I thought we were doing a pretty good job of policing ourselves, sure there are a few who post just to stir shit up but we mostly know who they are.
I thought there were so low shots taken at Ronnie for his fit story but not sure if others felt that way.
I thought those were low shots too. Also, BTSR is outspoken, but he doesn’t attack other people, and often makes insightful points.
While I disagree with much of what BTSR has to say, I find those comments mocking him both unseemly and unwarranted. He says what he has to say and lets others do the same without attacking them, he deserves the same courtesy.
When you spam your youtube revenue, your Hellcat, and post on articles first often, you’re kinda opening yourself up to ridicule.
Even then I just tune him out, dudes harmless.
I can handle any and all ridicule aimed at me.
I just passed 18,000 subs.
Paychecks still coming every 23rd via direct deposit.
Over $2000 a month extra just to have fun ?
I sit in front of my computer laughing like the Joker whilst in my office.
I don’t attack individuals and I do my best to obey the T.O.S here.
Afterall: when I’m EDITOR-IN-CHIEF I have to be prepared to MAKE TTAC GREAT AGAIN.
Your Hellcat is a mere puddy-tat. #AbarthAllTheThings.
While there is some real hate, most of it is friendly ridicule. We’re just having fun. TTAC wouldn’t be the same without a small dose of BTSR.
IMHO, BTSR (and anyone else) are wholly entitled to their opinions. BTSR does not, in fact, tend to attack commenters much from what I have seen, kudos to him on that. Additional kudos for mostly ignoring those that attack *him*.
However! that doesn’t mean that I think it is healthy for *off-topic* comments, from BTSR or anyone, be commonplace on the site – inevitably, a BTSR offtopic first-post literally derails the entire comment thread.
Have a daily offtopic post if the site needs it – BTSR can have first post there every day. :) But lets not let that conversation derail on-topic discussion about the article itself, which seems to happen with frightening regularity.
Big Trucks is [horrible pain stating this] a decent guy in how he reacts to the well-deserved slings and arrows he earns. As much as I’d love to never read another comment from him again, I’ll bet he’s great company over a few slugs of Bulleit Rye though we’d probably disagree on … everything.
I kinda equate Bark and BTSR. BTSR doesn’t bother me. Heck, I find him entertaining. Bark on the other hand pets me the wrong way. The difference is that BTSR is a commenter here. Bark is staff and should behave professionally (like Mark Stevenson does).
“Bark Bites” exists to rile people up. It’s a risk you took. All we can do is learn from the experience.
BTSR makes me laugh a lot. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. He’s bold, assertive, opinionated and often all of that gets delivered with a dollop of good humor.
If someone is taking votes on who to keep, he’s a keeper.
@Whiskey River: +707 That’s a good summary of how I feel. I really like the big guy.
…likewise; his bombast is entertaining, although his self-promotion does tend to cross the line of acceptably-topical discourse…
WhiskeyRiver, mcs and …m…
Agreed. I was watching the new Star Wars on Blu-Ray yesterday and I think I figured out why I’m a fan of BTSR, as a long-time Star Wars guy.
Just like the opening crawl to a few of the Star Wars films, he puts words in caps that need extra emphasis.
“…the Empire’s ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR…”
“…General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE…”
Well, you are the editor and it is your website, but there are some ideas in this post that concern me enough that I might write you a double-spaced letter with my real name on the bottom.
There are a few problems that need to be addressed, but I don’t plan to be overbearing. I’m a benevolent dictator, after all. I may even give you folks a constitution … or something.
We will tighten up the rules a bit, but I still want to foster the off-topic conversations that come from the TTAC commenters as I think they are incredibly insightful. However, I also want to have people in place who can react quickly when the discussion goes off the rails and turns into a personal slugfest.
Feel free to send your letter regardless. I read all fan mail.
“Starting today, we are on the hunt for moderators”
It isn’t you I’m worried about. I don’t like the idea of designating certain commenters as super-citizens. I don’t think there is anyone on here I really trust to moderate fairly (including me). I’m concerned that instead of an under-moderated forum we have now it will just be overpoliced one requiring us to write you on conflicts with mods to render final judgement.
Maybe deputize the author of each post or something instead of having separate mods?
What Ajla said.
I see the need for moderators, and know enough of myself to know better than to volunteer.
Kyree, for one, would be a good choice, although he would have to decide if he can devote the time.
I would agree with your sentiment here. It ends up being like Obscure Cars For Sale, where the moderators -mood swings- dictate what’s passable and what isn’t. There’s a power trip (it seems) they get from threatening people and moderating a Facebook group (which makes me laugh).
Occasionally one of the moderators or the owner comes down from Mount Vanity to give a little speech about this or that policy as well, and many noses turn brown in response.
And then someone posts something with four special edition VWs packaged as a bulk sale and we all make fun of the price with no retribution by the moderators.
They had their Monster Energy in stock at the 7/11 that day, so it’s okay.
The absolutely unbalanced nature of the moderating system is very unappealing.
Good old Monster. I liked a picture of my buddy’s Subaru STI on Instagram recently and now Instagram thinks I want to know more about Monster Energy and vaping supplies.
Hahaha. I really can’t drink that stuff – gives me very scary heart palpitations.
Dude there are also white Oakleys on sale.
I tried Monster once and it didn’t work.
Do you have to get a license to hunt for moderators?
(Yeah, I know, that one wasn’t very good…)
I agree with ajla’s concern. I recognize that you (Mark) don’t have time to go through all the comments yourself, but I’d rather see a cooperative effort involving all of the site’s regular authors than designating select commenters. I like the fact that all commenters stand equal and have to gain (or lose) respect based on the quality (or lack thereof) of their comments.
Rather than restrictions on content, I’d like to see a “hijack rule”: if 1) the discussion has become personal and 2) there are more than 4 replies in the personal part of the discussion, then any further comments will be deleted, and if the commenter(s) involved keep trying to post additional comments, then they will be temporarily banned.
“slàinte mhath”
Is that Gaelic?
—-
Do we really have enough problems that we require actual moderators? Yea sure every couple of months we have a little blow up, but a community that feels their opinion may be silenced may choose to withhold their opinion whether it well thought out and adding to the dialogue or equally whether it is an opinion that few can agree with. Either way it doesn’t grow the community, you may add a few that refuse to stay in a well fired – ‘hard’ auto enthusiasts site, but losing any of the well rounded B&B for a feather is a step in the wrong direction.
But as always, your my man, we’ll see how it all works out!
It’s Gaelic and also the name of a former band that used to rock fiddles and bagpipes. Look them up. You’ll want to smash back some beers as quickly as possible.
“Do we really have enough problems that we require actual moderators?”
It’s not that we have too many problems. It’s that we don’t react to the problems quickly enough when they rear their heads.
” … a community that feels their opinion may be silenced may choose to withhold their opinion whether it well thought out and adding to the dialogue or equally whether it is an opinion that few can agree with. Either way it doesn’t grow the community, you may add a few that refuse to stay in a well fired – ‘hard’ auto enthusiasts site, but losing any of the well rounded B&B for a feather is a step in the wrong direction.”
The last thing I want to do is silence people. I think I’ve demonstrated that over the last 12 months of my tenure. I’ve banned a total number of three people, IIRC, and they all had it coming for a very, very long time.
My thoughts are: if you can’t say it in a nice way, don’t say it at all; and if you are so focused on attacking a certain member of our community time and time again, maybe this isn’t the best place for you.
I’ll definately look it up, and yes I understand and respect where your coming from with this, quite honesty I looked into that thread, saw where the general conversation was headed and clicked back to the main page.
But out of my normal tendencies I will always look at a problem like this and think – ” If I give an inch will they take a mile?”, I trust that you won’t, but I’m sure you can understand my concern.
Edit: Allow me to clarify, I’m not afraid of you taking a mile, I’m afraid of an individual given moderation abilities taking a mile based off of their opinions on the issue.
A positive/negative feedback loop could steer conversation in the right direction pretty quickly. I would not doubt at least a temporary change in dude’s behavior if he’s allowed to return. His hyperbolic attention-starved negativity is a drain on every conversation he enters.
I stayed out of it, because DW was just way out of line and well…don’t feed the troll. Steps seem appropriate to me.
I’ve been coming here since the Farago and Jeanes time, and have mentioned that I’d LOVE the ability for me to block certain people’s comments from appearing (like forum software handles it). I’m sure it’s not a WordPress thing, but I’ve taken several hiatuses (hiatusi?) when I got fed up with the same drivel from a few people.
I’ve got the exact same story. Been coming here on and off for over a decade. The main reason I stop coming is the same as yours, a few one note commenters who just spout the same old stuff.
I’d love to be able to block those annoying users as the vast majority of comments are insightful and well informed.
Glad I skipped the article. Though frankly I have trouble reading articles on here through some of the new pop-over advertisements. Really bogs down my mobile browser too….
Mark Baruth decides to write about his real background for the 1st time since he’s been writing advice columns for TTAC for multiple years.
Mark Beauty gets challenged on credentials and pressed for more specifics, since he opened that door voluntarily, about what, exactly he does (as he was somewhat still opaque).
Mark’s feelings somehow got “hurt,” and so did a few of his low self-esteem followers, who hang on his every word of advice/wisdom/grace….
And the collective vagina-hurt bellow deep from the belly of the PC, delicate flower patrol!
SHELTER IN PLACE.
SAFE-ZONE/SAFE-SPACE RULES IN EFFECT.
DELICATE SNOWFLAKE WEATHER ALERT.
Trust me— I have no problem handling you, and my feelings are perfectly intact.
Poor you, Mark.
I know you pretend to be unaffected by my microaggressions (asking legitimate questions about your previously undisclosed work, as in particulars).
Yet I am confident that I may have been too forward in my line of questioning, and somehow imposed subjectively-interpreted/felt “hutrness” on you.
I will be forever delicate and gingerly towards you should I ever choose to respond to your very loud broadcasting of your credentials, expertise and super-awesomeness in the future.
Stay in your safe place, and put your word assault/criticism force field up until you recover.
Considering you choose to hide behind your anonymous screenname, with vague allusions to your accomplishments, I find it odd that you, in particular, would accuse anyone of desiring a safe space. You’ve managed to create your own, and you seem quite reluctant to leave it.
That being said, you’re absolutely right—I am super-awesome.
Why?
Mark,
I agree with you of course, that tonality is important and decorum is the single best way to facilitate intelligent conversation. Absolutely.
I vehemently disagree that “anonymity” is part of the problem. Does it change behaviour? Of course it does. But should our entire lives be laid bare to be given the privilege of commenting to another? I share a lot of my personal life, and I try to contribute thoughtfully to conversation, but that’s *my* choice.
Anonymity encourages behaviour that can often not mirror “real life”. Absolutely true. And so you punish that behaviour, because all you have to do is look to facebook comments to see that removing the mask of anonymity does nothing to stop blowhards and douchebags from being blowhards or douchebags.
The double standard bothers me. Bark hid behind anonymity for a long time and chose to rile people up with his articles. When folk like DW get riled up, Bark should stay out of it. Instead he responds in-kind.
Anonymity? I was under the impression he received the most obvious pseudonym Jack could come up with as a form of ironic humor, and then Mark just went with it.
Anonymity? Me? LOLZ
Did anybody NOT know who I was? The only reason I had a pseudonym was to keep my name out of Google searches conducted by my former employer. I couldn’t have been more obvious if I tried.
My username is at least as obvious as Bark’s. Does anybody not know who I am?
Let’s not gloss over the primary point of my post. If you (part of TTAC staff) believe someone is getting riled up to your article, it’s best not to poke them with a stick. If you can’t deescalate, leave it be.
Wait, am I the only idiot who didn’t realize Bark M. was Mark Baruth? Someone mentioned you were brothers, but that’s about all I pieced together.
So what’s brn supposed to mean? Google says Board of Registered Nursing.
I’m confused, does Bark still live in Lexington? The Boss is gone? He has a Fiesta ST now? Geez, you stop visiting regularly for 18 months and everything changes.
Bark, I liked your articles. The financing stuff is quite interesting. To beat the dead horse, I’d also agree that you would feed the trolls (in the comments) unnecessarily. Other than that, keep up the posts full of $s and %s.
I “got” the Mark Baruth pseudonym the first tine out, but if brn is anything but opaque I’m missing the context. #notseeingit.
The spoonerism of the name was lost on me.
(Though I’ve always said that if Jesus Christ Himself were to walk into the room, I wouldn’t have a clue about it!)
Well played, sir!
brn, I don’t know who you are, and can’t say I really noticed you before. Now you have me curious. Or maybe you are just trolling to say that you didn’t find “Bark M” an obvious pseudonym?
In the absence of any other evidence, I will just assume you are Doug DeMuro.
DeadWeight,
I do enjoy your input into TTAC. The lens you view the world from is great and generally not offensive to most.
What you are doing now has no entertainment value.
Please, look at what you are putting forward right now. You are better than that.
This is coming from me and I do make some comments that offend the US/NAFTA crowd. But, hey I looking into the aquarium and not in it.
I find it more than a bit ironic, and pitiful, that you, Deadweight, have decided to continue your unwarranted personal attacks against Bark by using the comments section of a posting that was created by the editor due wholly to your behavior yesterday. Truthfully, I scrolled down through the B&B commentary specifically looking for your postings knowing they would be here and continue to contain vitriol and hatefulness. You are, if anything, predictable.
DW, I say this as someone who respects your comments, you’re a good “rebel rouser” when it comes to sharing opinions, usually you have an interesting if unique insight on things, I wouldn’t want to see you get banned.
You should put this to rest
Agreed.
DW, you are better than yesterday’s nonsense. Go back and read your posts to Mark’s article. Or today’s. Not your best work.
There’s a guy I work with who always asks good and relevant questions. The problem is, he ALWAYS asks them. It ends up being bothersome when we’re trying to wrap a meeting and everyone starts to get really annoyed.
Your comments and questions may be valid, but that does not mean the rest of us here care about what you’re saying. And when you continue to belabor your point it starts to annoy us. Especially when the capslock comes out.
We get it, you don’t like Mark. You are free not to. But taking over the comments of every post does not further your intent. We stop reading your comments and just assume you’re being an a-hole.
You will never change a person’s mind about something in the comment section on the internet. And yes, I realize the irony of my entire post now.
So…to solve the problem of being called out as a jerk, the answer is:
Double down?
Seriously, DW…give it a goddamned rest.
You know, I was thinking about the moderation thing, and I thought to myself, “How would I know when a post was over the line? It just seems like it would be difficult to tell.” Well, now I know how I’d know.
DW, not to beat a dead horse, but I think your behavior in one thread bothered far more people than just Bark. The fact that it prompted numerous letters / emails to the editor, should give you pause, I think.
Speaking solely for myself, I didn’t find most of those posts entertaining, revealing, or particularly informative. The words they brought to mind were “pissing contest”. Not a fun read.
The post where you actually spelled out your likes & dislikes and the reasons behind them, that was interesting.
Now, in a new article spurred by the stuff in question, you start up again? Please, just drop it. For the good of all humanity.
Well, now we know from this article:
The gentlemen involved resolved it themselves.
That’s the best kind of resolution.
As long as it didn’t involve sidearms and 10 paces, I’m good with that.
I ran an IRC channel for many years. Some may recall those days. It was before internet forums were popular and lasted for a good while after forums came along. Indeed, there are a few holdouts, mostly outlaws, still hanging out on IRC.
The channel I ran had about 800 users at it’s peak and about half of those users logged on at some point every day. Because no one can monitor a channel 24 hours a day, OPs or moderaters were a necessity. And I had a lot of them.
I can debate either side of the issue here. I could argue all the reasons you need them and I can argue all the reasons you don’t. In my case, I couldn’t really live without them. We had kids logging on to play games in the channel. Foul-mouthed users and perverts had to be dealt with in real time.
But I gotta tell you, having OPs and moderators do not put an end to your problems. It just changes the problems.
You’re going to have to spend a good deal of your day dealing with the moderators. We used to have mandatory weekly online meetings so everybody could hear from me first hand what the rules were. Altough all 50 OPs heard the same thing at the same time, it never ceased to amaze me how many versions of what I said would float out of the ether.
A good deal of my daily duties surrounded dealing with what the Ops did yesterday, such as instant bans on people who didn’t deserve it. Or dealing with people that should have been banned but weren’t. I dealt with actions of my OPs for a couple of hours every day.
I understand why you need moderators. I’m just saying, it won’t solve all your problems. You’re going to have new problems. Only time will which set of problems turn out to be the biggest hassle.
Whatever is decided here, I’m fine with it. Just adding my two pennies to the mix.
Sounds like we have a similar background with IRC. I ran a channel on EFNet for years (one of the few IRC networks that didn’t have chanserv, so you had to have your own network of Eggbot bots to keep a channel in control). So, I totally understand that the problems change.
The main problem TTAC has right now is there are only so many people that have the power to moderate comments. I think we can make the conversation a little more pleasant if we have more people looking out for issues that are part of the community.
I agree in principal. I just know what a headache you’re fixin’ to have. Obviously, you do too.
DW,
Were you cut off by a Caddy ATS today, you seem more stressed than ever, maybe you have should order decaf at the Caddy coffee shop. As I said I missed the fireworks, I tend to call out fellow commenters from time to time, if they feel I am out of line feel free to reply and we should be able to work it out. While I seldom agree with BTSR and I think DW was disowned by the Caddy family I choose to read their thoughts, rants, insight. Blocking them all the time would be a loss.
I think he is stressed by being confronted by someone’s success in a field he doesn’t understand.
Would be nice for him to lay his career bare to us to critique- if he even has one- though that would require some level of bravery and integrity (and a career). Criticizing is way easier than doing, and DW is barely able to make even remotely valueable criticisms.
I’ve generally found that people who are quick to call others idiots are typically not very bright themselves.
DW projects dismissive apoplectic rage beyond all proportion to the degree to which he’s demonstrated that he is worth listening to.
I suspect he’s much less accomplished than *any* of the industry or TTAC personnel who he is so obsessed with denigrating.
Just your monthly reminder that the comments section on this website is dominated by about a half dozen people who bicker at each other incessantly.
Thats what makes it so entertaining!
I see it as my cue to fade away again. It’s like a bad sports radio program; a handful of callers become overly familiar with the host and use their time on the air to air their personal laundry. Not entertaining at all.
I sort of agree. I like the diversity of opinions here, and sometimes people really come up with an interesting and original take on some issue that makes me stop and think.
But I think it would be much improved if some of the more prolific commenters just self-filtered a little. I don’t need EVERY ARTICLE to have comments about subpar Cadillac ATS’s, Donald Trump, the HELLCAT, diesel Colorados, the 1%, fuel taxes, autonomous vehicles, human fallibility, US vs Euro safety standards, and 5 or 6 other routine topics.
I would actually like to hear from some of the less prolific commenters that do have good thoughts, but don’t necessarily post all that much.
Post count is good and a sign of life for the website, and I agree that post limits would be bad. But maybe it would be nice if the big “quantity” guys just thought about focusing on “quality” instead.
Man, to think this all started with a rattly rental-spec Cadillac ATS.
That’s like saying the Vietnam War began in the Gulf of Tonkin.
I think most of the issues would be resolved if any post with 5 or more sequential capital letters was automatically deleted.
Whatever gets implemented please avoid comment voting! Too often I’ve seen well thought up comments hidden or buried, because the masses disagreed with it.
I’m mixed on the idea of mods, please dont hire anyone from Reddit!
+1
Some easy suggestions for your IT dudes and dudettes:
-You can limit select posters on a case-by-case basis to a maximum number of comments per day
-You can limit select posters on a case-by-case basis to a maximum word count per post
-You can convert ALL CAPS COMMENTS into regular sentence case (or ban such abusers altogether for the blatant etiquette violations)
-You can include in a spam filter certain words that are prone to be abused by certain posters and that have no particular value on a car forum, such as “Nazi”, “fascist” and “socialist”.
These changes could be easily made. There are already off-the-shelf plugins for WordPress that do these things; your IT people could easily customize versions of these that work for you.
As Robert Farago once told me, there will be a certain small percentage of posters who want to take over or destroy your website, and the moderation should reflect that reality. You know who these people are; act accordingly.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, WHO USES ALL CAPS?
Nazi”, “fascist” and “socialist”
That would kill virtually every political discussion. LOL.
Oh and those that like using those words would say that it was a left wing conspiracy to silence the truth.
I’d say that anything that becomes personal should get deleted ESPECIALLY beyond just one comment.
DW’s initial comment might is okay but dry-humping Bark’s leg for the rest of the thread is too much. Same with the continuation of it on this thread.
Pch 101- yes to the word filter. Can we please include “vagina” in that batch of words unnecessary to this forum?
” Can we please include “vagina” in that batch of words unnecessary to this forum?”
What if we start talking about the Edsel?
Would a word filter actually work in reality? Won’t violaters just switch to ‘vag1na’ and ‘social1st’ and ‘butthert’?
Misspellings could also be added to the spam filter. Those who fail to get the hint can be dealt with by other means.
That being said, it would be ironic to include “vagina” on the list, given the role that the term “flying vagina” played in the founding of this website.
True enough. But it will take active moderation. Who has the time? I hope Mark gets some good volunteers.
What I am suggesting requires virtually no moderation at all. It can be automated.
The number of problem posters can be counted on your hands. This is not difficult to fix at all, but those few people have to be confronted with a combination of technology and personal attention.
If you mean the distinctive grille on the Edsel, the word you should use is vulva, not vagina. And yes, clever spelling does bypass banned words, G0d damm1t.
“Horse collar” was used in the period reviews, doesn’t flirt with sexual vulgarity and serves to imply a plodding clumsiness appropriate to a poor opinion of the design.
Perisoft
That’s just not possible. The flying vagina was a seminal moment around here.
Or the original Subaru B9 Tribeca? I hear TTAC has a history with that.
Or Subie Tribeca? ;-)
(Hella ironic placement, this!)
(Rim shot for @tedward, as well!)
Notadude,
What nonsense. Vagina is a word as is fnck, sh!t, etc.
At work we are not allowed to use the word “moist”! Because some females find it offensive.
The word “guy” is now being looked at, because guy refers to male.
I do think this politically correct crap is fncking sh!t.
Just because it suits you might not suit someone else.
Understand, your freedom ie, not using specific words impacts on another freedom. A happy medium must be found.
The censorship of language on TTAC is about right.
BAfO, I was referring to an insensitive term DW used above, not the actual body part.
Notafnck,
Don’t call me BAFO if you want me to respond to you in a decent manner.
This IS widely known on TTAC.
You act the “goat” I’ll fnck you over.
What you are doing is trolling.
Fnck you.
Al, do you really think that was a reasonable response to Notadude’s post?
Big Al,
I know you post here a lot, but please keep in mind that 90% of it refers to arguments over some subset of pickup trucks, diesel, the Aussie market and chicken tax.
Those of us who don’t follow those topics tend not to know your preferred name. I know I didn’t. Also, since there is another Big Al on here, we try to avoid confusion.
I thought they were the same person.
I though. Big Al from Merica was trolling Big Al from Oz.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
VoGo,
I have at least several dozen times stated (submitted comments) to call me by my TTAC name, or Al, Big Al and not BAFO.
If you guys were a little more observant you will have noticed how I respond ONLY to those who call me BAFO with disdain and disrepect. Sometime I even respond respectfully to those who call me BAFO.
As for my areas of interest, it’s mainly driven by economics and effects of barriers on the auto industry, globally. I’m also not bound by the boundaries of nations in how I view issues. I’m quite open.
Off roading is what I also discuss at length. I do see many atypical off road comments that are totally incorrect, by those who have a either never off roaded, or dream of off roading.
As for the other “Big Al” (Caps are for Mark!)
I DID ASK TO HAVE HIS NAME CHANGED (Big Al from ‘Murica)! BUT TO NO AVIAL. SO IF THE EDITOR IS SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT OCCURS ON THIS SITE, MAYBE HE CAN LOOK AT HIS INPUT AS WELL.
Big Al from ‘Murica only took on that name as a trolling feature against myself and TTAC allowed this to occur.
As for Notadude, well, remember I do respond to those who address me correctly with respect.
Show me otherwise. Believe it or not. Respect doesn’t necessarily mean that I concur with particular comments, but my response is proportional to the tone and language directed at me.
Thanks VoGo, I do and have always treated you and your comments with respect.
People that haven’t engaged you in discussion before or are new to TTAC may not know what you want to be called. They aren’t going to know unless you tell them and you probably shouldn’t be a jerk about it.
BAFO, none of us mean any disrespect by using your acronym, no different than HDC and others with long user names. But if any of them complained, they’ve earned the right for us to only use their full *proper* name, if that’s what they wish.
Except “Respect” goes both ways…
You, on the other hand, repeatedly earn “BAFO”. Just when we think you’ve cleaned up your act, nope still BAFO.
Actually, we love hearing from commentors from far away places, about their car scene, rules, laws, traditions, trends, etc., and learning about their automotive experience. We also trust they they’re giving us the true picture there, and not twisting the truth on some crazed anti-American agenda.
Except for your vast knowledge of the Ozzie beer scene, you contribute nothing here. Reading your posts, we end up dumber about the Australian automotive market/scene.
@BARFO – chill.
And since when is using your preferred nom du guerre a guarantee of civility?
Maybe Jack needs to mail a pacifier with that Truck of Texas plaque?
On one hand, BARFO’s uncontrolled rage over someone using an acronym is hilarious. On the other hand, there is probably a dog in Australia getting the snot kicked out of it for doing something like shedding or panting.
Quentin,
A few followed me over from PUTC, they started the “BAFO” trend on the site. A couple use their previous PUTC names and a couple others use new names.
Look BAFO, yeah, I did more or less choose the name to stick in your craw because personally I rank you in the top 5 or so of Trolls to post on these great forums. I mean you are right up there among the greats. Bill From Buckhead, P71_Silvy..then you. You are in the pantheon of great trolls. DeadWeight, naa, sometimes he is serious and generally amusing BigTrucks, naa…He is just a blowhard and is mildly entertaining. But You my friend, you are a troll among trolls and I honor that with my name choice, which breaks no rules and is is at least marginally connected to my real identity i might add. So We Salute You…Mr. I am offended by trolls while myself ranking in the pantheon of trolldom. And let me take another opportunity to refer to you as BAFO because I dont give a pinch of monkey crap if you ever respond to anything I post and frankly, I’d prefer you didnt.
Dude, the reason why most of us dislike you is that while you’re welcome to talk about American vehicle trends as it relates to that in Australia, you can’t seriously expect to come on a primarily North American site, rag on the United States and expect to be welcomed with open arms.
You’re now acting like a primadonna over your username, what language we should use here and threatening to “fnck” someone over via the Internet in a sad display of e-thugging. It looks absolutely pathetic.
And what is this about “respect” on a freakin’ car forum on the Internet? I apologize if you determine your self-worth and the worth of others from what folks on the Internet say, but for the rest of us, that’s totally absurd. Lighten up, BAFO.
O.M.G.
BAFO is getting ganged up on.
Must…….not…….join………in.
Must……think………for……myself.
Herd…….mentality……too…….strong.
Hey Big Al From ‘Murica.
Welcome back.
I’m convinced that one of Australia’s national pastimes is going online and reminding everyone that Australia exists.
I’m not going to implement any of these suggestions, and I’ll tell you why. You’ll like it.
For starters, you’re a prolific bunch, and limiting your conversations to a certain number of posts or words per day is crazy. Just imagine if someone said, “I know you can afford another tank of gas, but you are only allowed to burn one a day. Use it wisely.” That’s not freedom, and limiting someone’s words does not spur free debate and conversation.
What if someone said, “You can’t yell when you’re angry.” That’s silly. People yell. It’s a great stress reliever.
And when it comes to banning words, we already have certain words in the blacklist and those comments go to moderation. I still allow most of them because the use of those words fits the meaning and tone of the message communicated. Banning other words entirely is like putting up red light cameras in the TTAC comment area. I would rather have someone manning the radar gun so they can make the decision on a case-by-case basis.
I truly believe we have some of the most intelligent commenters of any website, period. To stifle the conversation means to play to the lowest common denominator and throw personal decision making abilities out the window.
It’s not all-or-nothing.
You could impose these limits on fewer than ten posters and achieve the desired outcome. Only certain posters would be subject to those limits; the vast majority don’t need them, but a few of them certainly do.
And in most cases, you don’t need to ban them entirely, just put the brakes on them.
You’re requesting a volunteer National Guard unit for the town when you only need a traffic camera on one street.
No. No censorship. No word counts. On anyone.
Oh My Lord! and no, just no! A “Top Ten” list would make us enablers to “The Ten’s” various (and readily identifiable) mental illnesses. Even a smaller number than 10 remind us of Cartman from South Park, “You will respect my authoritah”; who regard posting on TTAC as part of their pre-masturbation behavior. Now if I could only pay illegal aliens $2 an hour to install a Ford engine in my Cadillac so I could avoid the chicken tax.
Pch101,
Remember you can’t count to ten. You can write though. Are you into marketing?
A bunch of blowhards, keep it up, great entertainment.
Mark,
I do believe it will be hard for you to select the fairest moderators.
Do you have a list (read data base) of peoples preferences of vehicle;
1. brands, models, segments, etc
2. EV, gas, diesel, CNG and on and on,
3. Region of manufacture, ie, Europhobe, red neck, NAFTA, Canadian, US and on and on
4. political allegiance, including union, non union, left, right.
5. Xenophobes, yes, really.
6. Actual car buffs or trolls
7. and on and on.
It will be difficult to select a person who is equitable to moderate. So, you select a pony/sports/performance car man to moderate performance car articles. Lets say I make one of my usual submissions. Will my comment be deleted or me banned because I might see “life” differently?
I have no problems with you or the way in which TTAC has been managed. But do we really need moderators? 90% of the time the comments are quite good and logical. Even when the discussion turns political.
I do think some take TTAC incorrectly. To me TTAC is educational entertainment.
The only issue I have with Jack is me not receiving my “Texas Edition” badge. Believe it or not I was really looking forward to sticking it on my pickup.
Just be patient. I work on government time.
We need to unionize!
I think there are plenty of people here who are reasonable enough to moderate without unfairly censoring comments about brands or categories of cars they don’t like. It truly would just be for comments that make personal attacks against others, and those comments tend to be pretty clear.
Kyree, gotta say, you’re my vote for paragon of civility and articulation here. If you helped skipper the ship they could cut diamonds back on the stern.
I’ve got a whole bag of blood diamonds in the trunk to try.
@28: Alright, shh. “Bu..” Shh. I’ve got a whole bag of “Shh” with your name on it. (Lol Dr. Evil quote you made me think of with that post. You should know I ain’t serious. Lol)
—
I agree with others, Kyree is a solid choice.
It’s less about enforcement and more about having more eyes on what’s going on. Some of the rules will be straight forward and fairly easy to enforce. Others not so. In those latter cases, the moderators will come to me for verdict.
And, do be clear, I believe you can bring up nearly any topic in the comments. You just need to do it in a way that’s constructive. DeadWeight could have asked all the same questions of Mark that he did yesterday without the overwhelming tinge of disrespect.
I don’t disagree with the way in which DW could of managed himself yesterday. If you read above you will see my comment asking DW to cool down.
As for me, I do bring into discussions the more topical aspects of any comment and/or article.
The reality is I will not stop doing this. I do believe its great to be from the US, as I am, but I’m also fortunate enough to be able to “live” the “US” and live outside of the US and visit many countries. I’m quite pro American, Canadian, etc.
Oh, I’m also registered as a Frog. My mother is French and when I was born she registered me. I still have the conscription papawork for the French military! Hence, my trips to the EU.
Maybe, just maybe my comments are designed to stimulate responses that dig deeper into the psyche of those who respond. This is good. I do have a fair degree of knowledge in many areas and I do believe many read my comments.
Look at the negative responses I receive. Some are not constructive, as I have debated these people on numerous occasions and some tend to not deliver. The responses are generally based on nationalistic paradigms and not reality. Pch101, tends to mix “American Exceptionalism” with reality. His comments are generally quite good, with massive bias towards the left and US policy. This tends to distort.
I don’t believe in passive-aggresive techniques. This is a form of trolling that is used by some on TTAC significantly. That is purposely the misrepresentation of facts, to be devisive. The misrepresentations of comments in a passive-aggressive format are the worst. These are what I term the “slimy” trolls. They deserved to be trounced on.
One thing I do ask. If a a debate is raging. Why not ask those involved in a heated debate to provide proof of their belief, ie, provide credible links. I would support this greatly. You will then call out some of the trolls.
The more I read his posts the more I think Big Al From Oz is actually Ronnie Schreiber.
“Big Al From Oz is actually Ronnie Schreiber.”
Sir, you’ve gone too far.
There is no substance, process, or misfortune that could ever make Ronnie write like a brontosaurus dropping turds. Many timer per day.
scott25,
Yes, what made you connect “myself” and Ronnie?
Good work, my man.
No, he is the other Aussie who pipes up to agree with him though…Rex Ryan or whatever the crap his name is.
“Maybe, just maybe my comments are designed to stimulate responses that dig deeper into the psyche of those who respond. This is good. I do have a fair degree of knowledge in many areas and I do believe many read my comments.”
I read this and the first thing that came to my mind was “Modern Major-General.” He knows everything vegetable, mineral and animal!
Moderators don’t have to be neutral. I have opinions and biases, yet I’ve moderated several forums fairly. It was extremely rare that I’d delete a post.
The key is to have a well defined understanding of the line that needs to be crossed to have a comment removed. Even folk like myself have that degree of control.
Mark, I don’t want to be a moderator here (not that I’m on your short list anyway). Having the moderator flag next to my name is something I don’t want. It makes me feel as though I need to be very careful when providing an opinion. I prefer to feel free to voice my thoughts.
Re: moderators
Dave Cameron’s going to be looking for work come October and he has lots of experience in mealy-speak.
He’d just spell some things a bit funny but Canadians won’t mind :-D
“mealy-speak”?!
Have you ever watched “Prime Minister’s Questions”?
http://www.c-span.org/series/?PrimeMinisterQue
PM Cameron is excellent in this forum. Mr. Obama could NEVER stand up to this sort of Q&A rigor, since he is incapable of speaking without prepared notes. Actually, the American debate process is utterly tame compared to what they do in Britain.
Thanks for the link. I know their debates in Commons get woolly but, no, I’ll have to check that out. I was referring to the pablum that he, like all mainstream politicians, doles out on official occasions.
SCE to AUX,
I agree. I think David Cameroon is the best English speaking orator. As we say he has the “Gift of the Gab”.
Angela Merkel is quite good. Have a read of her biography. She and Putin lived in Leipzig. Putin was working with the Stassi as the Soviet KGB “advisor” and she was in uni studying physics. Good reading. You will then understand Merkel. Great woman, better than Thatcher. Makes Hillary look like an amateur those two.
Kenmore – so would Dave Cameron be doing that as a favour or as a favor?
As a labour of love from the bottom of his bonnet, I should think.
Kenmore – ha ha
Sticks and stones and all that.
All you need to do is look at the real-world effects of online bullying, stalking, and general douchbaggery to see that an age-old axiom about personal violence probably isn’t relevant anymore. Words have power.
My kids have been warned about/taught about cyber bullying since they were small. Every (public) school they attended gave parents and students clear guidelines for what constituted bullying online, and kids were disciplined if they were caught engaging in that kind of behavior.
DW would have been suspended at my kids’ high school for the type of “microaggressions” he was aiming at Bark.
This.
I *love* the B&B, and the amazing discussions we’ve had here over the years. I’ve learned a lot about the industry as much from the comments as from the posts on TTAC.
DW and BTSR *very* often make posts that are irrelevant to the discussion and/or of the “I know more than you therefore you are wrong but I won’t bother explaining why because it is obvious” mentality. These sorts of comments don’t add to the discussion, except to serve (very well) to derail it. At the same time, I know there’s a certain level of counterculture going on here as well – some of the B&B just want to shoot the shit sometimes, as it were.
Perhaps something like regular “Open threads” where DW/BTSR/etc can discuss offtopic-but-somehow-related-to-the-car-industry-I-hope topics, independent of article posts?
Please don’t use made up words such as “microagression”, it gives them power they don’t have otherwise.
DW made rude comments which were unwarranted.
I was quoting a term DW used above.
Fair enough, my bad.
For children and teenagers mayhaps. I don’t think threats of stalking apply here. It’s usually the SJW/freeze peach clowns that do the doxxing to get people fired, not the regular run of the mill trolls.
Quite true. The point I was trying to make, though, is that personal attacks and derogatory comments *do* affect people. suggesting people “get over it” is like telling someone to leave the theatre if they don’t like people talking over the movie, when in fact the opposite should occur.
There are *great*, eloquent and thoughtful speakers on TTAC. There are crass, crotchety, oldtimers on TTAC. There are new, interested auto enthusiasts on TTAC. *all* of them can manage to have wonderful, engaging discourse here, and do – all without devolving into personal attacks and bile. The community will survive quite will, IMHO, even without people attacking others.
The most-innocuous articles are the ones which turn into domestic disputes.
I’ve used TTAC as a place to learn from others, and my ideas and opinions have evolved over time since I joined during the Farago days. Some of this process has occurred via heated exchanges between the commenters, including me.
Just two small examples: I no longer hate the Chevy Volt (I actually think it’s a pretty marvelous product overall), and I’ve come to accept that Tesla’s business model has some pretty dangerous holes in it. “Carlson Fan” and “Pch101” have been instrumental in helping me see some Truth About Cars on these two points, despite my objections for many years.
Some of the Best & Brightest really are that – in a broad sense – but most of us are better versed in just a few areas. I know a couple things, but some of you are a well of knowledge and experience, which I appreciate.
And I don’t have to agree with everything someone writes in order to like them overall. I actually enjoy the fray here.
BTSR and I share common political views (I think), and DW isn’t wrong about Cadillac and GM’s foibles. These guys get a bad rap; we need people with strong opinions, even if you disagree with their position or tone sometimes. As a conservative, I always respected Ted Kennedy because he was an honest liberal, while people such as John McCain play both sides.
Mark – Keep up the good work. Personally, I think less is more when it comes to policing the crowd here.
I agree. I wonder, again, if perhaps some open threads would let that sort of discussion simmer away from the other conversation, where those that choose to have them can do so in relative isolation?
You mean ‘Honest Ted’ who killed Mary Jo Kopechne? ‘Honest Ted’ who decided to wait 9 hours before contacting the police. ‘Honest Ted’ who decided it was better to walk back to his motel, complain to the desk manager about a noisy party, take a shower, go to sleep, wake up and order breakfast, then speak to two lawyers before calling the police. The autopsy report stated Mary Jo Kopechne survived for approximately 4 hours in an air pocket in the car before succumbing to asphyxiation.
Troublemaker. lol
@mtmmo:
At a personal level, Ted Kennedy was not an honest, upright guy – no argument with you there. I was referring to his politics, which were fairly transparent.
You summed up my thoughts nearly exactly, SCE to AUX.
I’ve learned to tone down the conservative rhetoric a touch as a result of this site.
At the end of the day, it’s CARS we’re debating!
Mark,
Yesterday was a “little over the top” with a lack of civility. But it was also the exception since most exchanges are civil.
Do you need a moderator? Not really.
Do you need someone to step in if and when it gets over the top? Perhaps you do.
Yesterday’s exchange lasted several hours there was ample time for “someone” to step in.
I agree with Pch 101 that certain words should not be used by anyone.
I don’t know if we can name names but may as well. Even the people who flame non-stop aren’t total idiots and BSTR and Deadweight are important members here.
But they both need to keep the comments very relevant to the article. But they also should be offered soapboxes. Give them the chance to write for free to TTAC. Heck, give every one who can write a good article about something relevant to cars a chance to get published on here.
We all have some expertise / information that would be interesting to the broader community and as we share that and the community learns more about each other, we might lose some of the acerbic comments.
gtemnykh has forgotten more about Toyota trucks than most of us will ever know. Could we write something about why Toyotas work so well in the MotherLand?
Hummer can tell us about ways to go off-roading in American cars without Jeep badges.
LS1fan and ajla seem to have a knack for cheap speed. Why can’t we hear more from them?
Personally, I’d like to see BSTR content but more along the lines of ‘here’s how you can build up various chrylser products’ and less with the self-promotion (e.g I make $N thousand per month fOR FUN).
He really illuminated me to the potential of SRT392 engine and I know a lot of us here aren’t the most aware of mopar and perhaps BSTR can talk about why Chryslers and Hyundais resonate with him. But I would like to see him tone down the bombast and turn up the introspection (e.g he doesn’t drive used cars, does that color his opinion of Chrylser?). In a lot of ways, he’s like a very successful Tavarish who doesn’t have to slum it with crapbox mitsuibishis.
Though I think BTSR has been unusually dismissive of bikes and I’d like to see him incorporate bikes in his ‘live and let live’ attitude. I’m willing to make that happen, BTSR if you ever visit Minnesota I’ll teach you to ride a motorcycle.
Deadweight is my favorite commenter and the man needs a soapbox not the banhammer. and he needs to stay on topic with the stuff that bothers him and quit seeing bark as a scapegoat / martyr. Look, he’s a businessman who’s aware of what’s going on. He has an unusual familiarity with finance, construction, and the ‘real economy’ and I think he had a valuable but misplaced dissent to Bark’s article about millenials buying cars. If DW has a bone to pick, let him write about it rather than let him lie in wait for a comment secion to hijack.
It’s worth considering, it gives the lightning rods a chance to publish their thoughts and get the celebrity. TTAC gets free content. And it provides a better path to dissent than starting a flame war.
Donor Cycles
I nearly lost a foot to one when I was living in China.
When I see a person with a motorcycle as a daily driver I basically write them off.
A number of motorcyclists I knew, personally, where killed.
You don’t have to support them and your content is at its best when you talk about the things you like so don’t talk about motorcycles. Just remember that they exist and when you write about the Hellcat being a performance bargin prempt the critics by pointing out that it’s a performance bargin for a new car / a car with that much power and reliability.
You know that a squid who can round up two grand can go get a donor cycle that would give a stock hellcat a run for its money. I know that. So write like you know that.
Truck, you should probably avoid commenting on things you don’t understand. It does you no credit. It’s been suggested to you before that you shouldn’t project your limitations on others who are more skilled and capable than you. That’s just life; you can’t be good at everything. I applaud your personal capability assessment and resulting decision to stay off motorcycles. It’s safer for everyone that way. But realize you share forum space here with people who have ridden daily for decades, for more miles than many if not most commenters have driven in automobiles. Without injury. I’m coming up on 600,000 miles myself and I know several others here have similar or greater experience.
I’m sorry about your friends. It’s probable, however, that they fit one or more likely profiles for fatalities: inexperienced, unfamiliar with the motorcycle, no gear or undergeared, no license or training, and impaired or inebriated. It rarely takes more than a few questions to isolate the true cause of death. It is rarely the motorcycle’s fault. It is almost always a failure in judgment in an unforgiving environment where judgment is by far your most important skill.
How about a set of buttons below each post: thumbs up/thumbs down/report? That would give each poster some feedback, as well as obviate the requirement of moderators having to scrutinize each post.
Those thumbs up/down always turn into “agree/disagree” rather than “this post is exceptionally productive/unhelpful.” When people use them as “agree/disagree” it just reinforces groupthink, which is a very bad outcome.
Do what Amazon does then:
Was this review/comment helpful? Yes/No
While there are plenty of times I wish they were there, I vote thumbs down on the idea of a thumbs down vote. :)
Comments on TTAC are significantly more productive than comments on many other sites. I believe the lack of up/down votes is one reason.
Mark, will this include a reduction in the number of trolling *articles* posted as well? Because I personally define trolling as “saying something incendiary to cause people to rise up in opposition”, and more than a few articles have been accused of doing just that.
There are some *excellent* writers on the B&B team, and I believe that their best work is their researched, well thought out pieces and details, NOT when they write trollish pieces because they know it will generate pageviews or comments.
As an editor, I’m sure that is a difficult call to make – to deny clickbait-y pieces that will generate revenue to preserve the editorial integrity of the site. But I think it’s an important one, especially if you are holding the B&B to the same standard.
Thanks.
Only clickbait allowed on TTAC are Toyota ads.
Strong agreement with orenwolf, as I’ve described in a couple of my comments above.
Hey! I’ve changed my opinion on Toyota! My 4runner spent 12 of 18 months mainly in the shop for one thing or another. The last episode it vaporized every ground wire on it while driving down the interstate. I was very disenchanted with the famous “Toyota Quality” reputation.
As of today, it’s run 6 months without anything breaking. I’m beginning to like it again. It’s still on probation though.
The issue is clearly you. Popular opinion, and great marketing, tell me that Toyota’s don’t have problems. All those service bays at Toyota dealerships are for routine maintenance.
/s
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?
bball,
Are their kids on TTAC?
Some seem to be bored geriatric/babyboomers with little else to do other than look at some distorted nostalgic past that only exists in their minds. The “Great Yesteryears”.
It’s odd we only remember and mainly highlight the good, often forgetting the bad.
Just channeling my inner Rodney King.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King#Los_Angeles_riots_and_the_aftermath
Rodney King fact:
“King invested a portion of his settlement in a record label, Straight Alta-Pazz Records, which went out of business.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King
Bonus fact:
“Early on the morning of March 3, 1991, King, with two passengers, Bryant Allen and Freddie Helms, were driving a 1987 Hyundai Excel or a Mitsubishi Precis west on the Foothill Freeway (Interstate 210) in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. ”
I didn’t know he was driving a Hyundai.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Excel
I bet Rodney King’s raps were terrible.
Yes, and the Excel’s supposed inability to attain the excessive speeds alleged by the LAPD were late-nite comedy fodder at the time.
Yes, what about the chillens!
Wouldn’t it be so cool if everybody was like, chill with one another? Then we could all just be chill together, and stuff.
I volunteer…for 5 reasons.
1) I’ve done it before.
2) I’ve enjoyed this free site for years. I’m now retired and able to donate some time.
3) I have no personal relationships with anyone on this site.
4) I agree with Mark’s description of the moderator role for this site.
5) I want the site to stay edgy.
I volunteer my time for EDITOR-IN-CHIEF.
TTAC needn’t pay me.
I’m self funded (like any good Republican would be)
I’m not sure what’s going on with the commenting and I am sure I don’t care overmuch but the one good thing that happened here, today, to me, is that this article caused me to go back and read “Bark’s” article, which I enjoyed, without reading the comments.
Comments on the Internet are the last bastion of “free speech”. Unfortunately that speech is so vile and angry in tone that politicians make reference to it in debates now.
I wish I could have recorded half the sh*t I’ve said over Xbox Live.
I’d be bigger than PewDiePie
‘Comments on the Internet are the last bastion of “free speech”.’
This argument is hilarious. Books are easier to publish now than at any time in history (Go self-publish on amazon). BTSR, go write a paper on the fall of “‘Murica”, publish on amazon, and have your legions of followers purchase it. You’ll be a powerhouse of.. well.. whatever it is you do.
Moreso, don’t you post a youtube video every now and then? “Television” is more accessible than it ever was.
In your 1950’s “‘Murica”, where was the power of free speech then? I’d argue wholeheartedly that having a voice is a million times easier today than it was in the grand ol’ days you pine for.
The problem is, people don’t actually have to watch or read what you say, so listeners/viewers is now more “free”, too. And those same listeners and viewers can actually comment instead of writing a letter to the editor or yelling at their TVs.
Forums are not “Free”. They are whatever the owner chooses them to be. As it should be – personal rights and all that.
Not bad Mark doesn’t crack down on commentary because he needs presence to get paid from the advertisers.
I’m sure he wants to enjoy his EiC position until it is no longer profitable or tenable.
TTAC’s best route is to make the forum even more open.
Notice all the people who claim: “that’s why I don’t post” yet they hang around indefinitely.
TTAC needs to grow its presence by making more noise.
Most internet articles are clickbait for that very reason.
They won’t exercise censorship unless absolutely provoked because they need revenue.
BTSR, you are absolutely right. That’s been the Jalopnik way for a long time, and as I already mentioned below, TTAC needs to either decide it’s going to be about clickbait and trolling articles over good content, or vice-versa. There’s no doubt that in the short term, clickbait will generate more revenue.
But the B&B are a large part of why *I* come here, and I doubt I am alone. If the majority of the B&B become fed up with both comment and post quality, they will, eventually, leave – it takes time to burn through all those years of goodwill, but it will happen. When it does, I think TTAC would find itself making far less, not more, money as an also-ran.
The thing is, I have no doubt Mark is acutely aware of these sorts of issues. I’m sure every time he publishes he weighs a great many things in his mind. This post today about comment decorum tells me that, if nothing else, he has an idea of what TTAC should be to him, and that I agree with that vision. And that vision from my perspective is incompatible with clickbait, trolly articles. High quality comments are attached to high quality *content*.
We’ll see if my assumptions hold true or not going forward, I guess.
orenwolf – well said.
Opening this place up to click bait hell is not the way to go.
We all forget that with freedom comes responsibility.
We are granted the privilege to post here.
orenwolf,
You don’t really need “clickbait” articles here to get a huge response.
Just do a pickup truck article.
This reminded me why I no longer comment on blogs. (Actually, I just did…)
To quote DW from August 16th, 2012:
Please pay special attention to the last sentence. Let the irony sink in…
“but you need not fear debating various issues with me.
If you ever are stressed or feel angst because of an opinion I express, let me know, and I’ll do anything within reason to respect your sensitivities– but I can’t guarantee I’ll feign agreement with you merely to help you feel better or more secure, as that would not further a constructive debate.
Tone is important, and we should be civil, but substance is key to a constructive debate, and that should remain vigorous.”
I’ve often said DW’s own words will come back to bite him, as history shows his myopia. Good job finding such a poignant example.
DW’s words are, indeed, what the site should strive towards. The fact that he hasn’t done so should absolutely be a sign of how far things have fallen in recent months with trolling.
We all slip up occasionally, except for maybe kyree. It’s not surprising or that big of a deal, but it’s better for everyone if the nastier stuff has a shorter half life.
I like dw’s (and btsr’s) comments here, hell my one and only avatar is a light troll based on his love of the ats. His spat with mark b seemed to start with one really mild testy back and forth a little while ago. Elevating it to attacking marks credentials and knowledge base was an entirely off topic escalation that was driven by personal insult. It’s still not that big a deal, we just don’t need to rehash it over and over again.
Well done.
President Merkin Muffley: There’s nothing to figure out, General Turgidson. This man is obviously a psychotic.
General “Buck” Turgidson: We-he-ell, uh, I’d like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all the facts are in.
President Merkin Muffley: General Turgidson! When you instituted the human reliability tests, you *assured* me there was *no* possibility of such a thing *ever* occurring!
General “Buck” Turgidson: Well, I, uh, don’t think it’s quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.
Please submit your avatar change request using form 302-A1 to the Council of Avatar’s home office.
Good Sir, please refer to the “Bark’s Bites: Who is Bark, and why should we listen to him?” for the reasoning behind said change.
28 Cars Later has called dibs on being Col. Bat Guano
I didn’t get down that far I guess, only to the earlier DW parts! Then I left.
I’m Mayor Chap Stick.
Let me guess… Something else we need to get you to see is “Doctor Strangelove or How I Quit Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb.”
I’ve seen it! Watched it in college in a Film Noir class.
Corey – You’re gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company.
W-w-whaaaat is this? An avatar change? Say it ain’t so, Principal Dan! My head is about to explode!
Certain avatar changes NEED to be moderated… and approved/disapproved.
I disapprove… tho’ “Dr. Strangelove” was and still is a great movie… Slim Pickens riding the bomb: Ye-hawwwwww….. Ya-hooooooooo…
How many roles did PS play in that movie…
Peter Sellers as:
Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, a British RAF exchange officer
President Merkin Muffley, the President of the United States
Dr. Strangelove, the wheelchair-bound nuclear war expert and former Nazi
Once again, I missed something at TTAC – and feel that I am better for missing it.
You are. Sadly, my draft number was too high (for exclusion from this excellent adventure).
My inadvertent addiction to MOBA gaming has left me with a Pavlovian aversion to saltiness and trolling. I made it a little way into the comments section and then my brain subconsciously made me lose interest. Now I know why.
This too shall pass.
I only play PVE now. My time spent with Guild Wars in the last decade turned me off of any kind of PVP forever.
I actually didn’t read it, either. No point in torturing myself now.
Went back and read yesterday’s deal. Whole thing pretty much why I thank god I don’t work in the car biz anymore and why I don’t go to car shows.
I remember googling GM’s demise long ago, 8,9 years ago. I stumbled on this site. Farago, Niedermeyer etc. Then I left. Now I kinda drifted back here the last 4 or 5 months. Suddenly I remember why I left in the first place. Hope it fixes itself.
To the guy from Down Under. Get a grip.Everyone is not on here 24/7, thus do not know how important/sensitive you are. That we should know is ludicrous. Are we not discussing uppity behavior here?
+1. The severe reaction to being referenced as BAfO makes no sense. I’m a regular reader, and had no idea. Now, of course, everyone will use it. You can’t make up some silly rule for no apparent reason, and expect people to follow it.
It’s like creating your own nickname and expecting people to call you that.
Personally I enjoy the unique perspective of the writers and the bulk of the commenters here. I especially enjoy the ranting of Big Truck and Deadweight. I am for many reasons against censorship and hope that no-one gets banned for expressing an opinion. All thoughts might not be enjoyed but I do feel they should be heard. Everyone keep up the good work.
There is a right and wrong way to express your opinion, though. DW was wrong.
This worries me. I imagine 90% of the complaints came from commenters that water down the discourse to mouth breathing, non value added personal opinion bot post.
F*ck, DW is one of the few that makes me actually critically think. He has spurred me to actually dig sh1t up and contribute.
If some god d@mned milquetoast commenter turns into some jockeying mod I am gonna troll hard and often.
If this post offends you, good. Bring your A game when you post or add an ignore button.
DW and BTSR should not be lumped together and equal offenders.
DW has always been a little over the top but I’m super glad he’s here to critique some of Bark’s material. Bark’s last article and bio was way, way overdue. He’s offered some really interesting advice, but it was sometimes hard to take him seriously 1) without knowing his background, and 2) because of some really, really questionable advice he’s given that borders on trolling. Also, Bark is super thin skinned, and there is a portion of the B&B who are so enamored with Bark/Jack/et al that they constantly feel the need to “come to the rescue,” even when the critique is warranted. So, I welcome DW’s input, although he does seem to be stretching on his critiques, and yesterday was over the top.
My most favorite people on here are DW and Tres. Especially Tres…look at his avatar for crying out loud…its TUCO!!!!! He bathes with a six shooter and has a penchant for gold (aka real money) how can you not like a guy like that! And DW…I feel like he’s my clone at times. I cannot begin to tell you how many car forums I’ve been banned from writing very similarly to DW. Here, all I have to do is sit back with a coffee and go “atta boy, DW!! ATTA BOY!!!!”
“You see, in this world there’s two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.”
-Blondie
Poor Dagwood.
I still like TTAC and I still like cars. Oh, well…
Hurrah!
Like that college library book I have about Kurt Schwitters, it’s long overdue.
Long.
Overdue.
I find once a place becomes moderated…it becomes an echo-chamber echoing whatever is on the minds’ of the mods in place. That is not good for general discourse and banter…not good at all, and generally leads to a watered down, lowest common denominator kind of place. You know…sort of like public school.
I love TTAC because it is the Wild West of car blogs/forums. Get over it, if your feelings got hurt, go have a whiskey at the bar. If you don’t drink…blend up some wheat grass with a spritz of lemon and down that instead.
Solid advice.
Tips for having Whiskey at the bar: Be a hot female. Short leather skirt but not too short. Lean over and whisper in a low “come-hither” voice and say “Ever driven a Hellcat naked? I’ll be naked in the passenger seat when you’re finished with that drink.” Toss the key fob on the bar and slow sexy walk to the door.
I’m not saying it’s a slam dunk but that’s the general idea for having Whiskey at the bar.
Are you in the role of the hot female?
Gotta clarify in this day and age!
It’s a good thing I couldn’t take my feminine side to the ladies room when I was younger. Not that I had one but I would have claimed I did.
About time. If there’s an interesting topic and yet 2 out of 3 comments are about one person, with nothing new added, coming back to TTAC becomes a little less tempting every time.
I moderated a motorcycle listserv for almost twenty years. I don’t miss it so I’m not going to volunteer my services.
What made our list work was the honor system. There was a fairly simple set of rules with the understanding that the sum of your posts defined your character, and that free speech didn’t apply. Ad hominem attacks and politics were completely off the table.
It basically boiled down to this: This is my house. You are a guest in my house. I make the rules. Behave as a guest. Don’t squabble with my other guests. Entertain or enlighten us so I’d want to have you come back. If you insist on being a jerk, either to me or my other guests, I’ll ask you to leave. If you screw up and have the humility to apologize to the list, you will likely get a second chance, but my decision is final and not subject to appeal.
This was so generally agreeable that the list was largely self-policing for years at a time. Even though from time to time I had to toss unrepentant transgressors, we even had folks with certifiable mental illnesses who were tolerated and largely enjoyed. In fact, I pretty well recognize the type here. Everyone needs a home somewhere you can let your own personal weirdness out on occasion and parade it around.
I don’t know if ttac needs dedicated moderators. Or collective success rate is pretty damn high all things considered. How about asking a few commenters to quietly email you when things go off the rails? It’s actually pretty rare, and we should remember that all of us descend into the fray due to occasional drunkenness (guilty), bad mood (guilty), frustration (guilty), for pits and giggles (also guilty). My point is that having a public responsibility as a moderator means you really shouldn’t allow any of those slip ups, and that makes participation less enjoyable.
Who’s going to moderate the ramblings of certain editors (whose names rhyme with uncouth) who continue to resort to bigotry and sexist rants in order to generate clicks on what is supposed to be a car enthusiast website?
“certain editors (whose names rhyme with uncouth) who continue to resort to bigotry and sexist rants”
Using the plural says you’re firing two barrels when you only need one.
The editor(s) in question fire a couple barrels to 1) generate some interest either positive or negative, and, 2) cause the reader to take pause and actually think about the information being presented. To reject the information outright without really thinking about what is being said regardless of the reader’s own views is, in essence, a bigoted and prejudiced reaction toward another persons beliefs/views. If you don’t like what you see, change the channel/turn the page. Some of us here are mature enough/truly open minded enough to read and process the views of others without getting out the pitchforks and torches.
I appreciate the writing style. A bit outlandish and irreverent works for me.
Look. If you don’t want to be entertained when you read the articles here you could just download spec sheets for vehicles and read through those.
It’s not called “The Truth About Cars Specifications Only.” Nor should it be.
WhiskeyRiver – agreed. Spec sheets don’t explain how a vehicle “feels” or how it makes you feel. We learn and grow by listening to others thoughts and feelings. We don’t need to agree but we do need to understand.
Now we’re talkin’ Lou. I think that’s why I like following Jack… He does a good job of conveying how the car makes him feel. I hadn’t thought about it that way until you said it.
Just finished reading the article and all the comments. So what’s the problem? Whose panties are getting all knotted up over the comments? I see disagreement and a bit of “calling out” going on, but nothing that should warrant any big change to TTAC. I think some people just need to wash the sand out of their vaginas and carry on with their lives….
“wash the sand out of their vaginas”
e30gator,
As you can see, JB is among many of his own kind here. Abandon any expectation of change.
And how’s that for timing?
Ah, the Brash & Boorish.
god d@mned right
How did the sand get there in the first place?
I just leave it to Cayman…
youtu.be/r6FaNFBl_Bc
I am a long time daily reader and occasional commenter here. My favorite TTAC people are; Farago, Bertel, Jack B, Tres, Tyree, BigTruck, DW and HDC in no particular order. Oh, and can’t think of his name, but the guy from Buffalo, the merchant marine who moved to Japan and had his minivan shipped there.
In my 7+ decades on God’s green earth I have always lived my my Mom’s words:
1. Turn the other cheek.
2. Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you.
3. When someone calls you a name……just laugh and smile back at them.
As a kid growing up post World War II, with a last name of Herman, I was relentlessly called, “Herman the German” and Herman the Nazi”. Never really bothered me, I just shrugged it off, never offended me. In this day and age I am baffled at what offends people and how easily offended some people seem to be.
PLEASE….NO MODERATION. It will be the end of TTAC as we know it. Was DW a little over the top the other day? Sure, and I really believe he knows it. Love yuh DW, Big Truck, Bark and all the B&B.
“Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you.”
Never heard of a kid committing suicide because of a stick or a rock!
?
They call that homicide. There are many kids who have been beaten to death, or suffered serious physical harm at the hands of other kids. Frank Black wrote a song about one:
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-05-19/local/me-3412_1_harbor-city-high-school
As another who was raised under the “sticks and stones” mantra, kids being injured in physical assault situations has always seemed far more serious to me. Under-18 stabbings, beatings, and blunt-trauma head injuries aren’t the rarities they should be. Instances of physical assault and property theft/damage were common among classmates growing up. We live in a system that is now targeting issues of politeness while still considering direct and intentional personal harm to be somewhat acceptable.
I don’t believe it’s the name-calling that matters anyway; it’s the exclusion. Kids aren’t going to experience any fundamental changes as a result of PC culture. They’ll continue to exclude the outliers, but it will happen more quietly. I’m not sure that’s much better. At least the traditional name-calling allowed for some involvement and a chance to use their wits to obtain some place in the social hierarchy. Childhood seems like as good a time as any for learning how to deal with reality.
Shining up the surface of human nature isn’t going to change it. We’re all still in competition, and will be for the foreseeable future.
Some boards deal with this with a small Army, like the NY Times, where humans moderate.
Others, slashdot, or reddit, have everyone who do this, by up or downvoting posts. I’ve read slashdot so long I get occasional invites to meta-moderate, so that system needs monitoring too.
Facebook decided not to allow voting, because if half your followers downvoted your political post, you’d turn off FB….and we all have that friend who has bad taste in politics and posts all the time. FB is happy talk (look at my food !!!-here on Vacation with my med school grad twin kids) BS and wishes to stay that way.
Worst, is I like the broad variety of approaches, occupations and opinions. I’ve learned something from every poster here, even those whose posts number in the thousands. You have to be correct and on your toes to post here. If anything, that’s the appeal.
It’s the internet. No different than hearing someone in a bar going on about something.
I’m reminded of a cartoon, probably xkvd, where an off panel person asks “Are you coming to bed soon” and the character on panel, agitated and behind a computer, says “I’m not going to bed yet…someone on the internet is WRONG”.
“we all have that friend who has bad taste in politics and posts all the time.”
I didn’t know we’re friends on Facebook. Sorry about the politics but I’m too old to change.
It’s OK. All the political BS just makes me go to FB less often, so there is that benefit. I am referring to ALL of it, not just the bits I disagree with-cutesy memes and all.
Jack got jealous when Doug Demuro came out of nowhere and suddenly got all the attention. Jack’s stuff seemed tired and old, Doug’s fresh and funny. Rubbed the old dog the wrong way because Doug doesn’t know much about cars. Hence the correction from Jack on how spoilers work on a Porsche 911 and the overall bitterness. “I had to pay such dues to get to where I am today, I’ll show you.”
Then Mark starts getting lots of comments and that rubbed another old dog, DW, the wrong way because Mark doesn’t know much either, hence the silly post about OK guys here is who I am and what I do. Jack and DW are basically the same kind of person.
Bark and Doug are not at all alike but appear, to some folks, as having more fans than they deserve. That’s what this is all about.
How is this for prose ?
Back story is j40 years working “at” cars. Watching the progress from points & carbureators. Morph into the electronic wave of the 20th century. The morphing kept going until technology & manufacturing caught up in the 21st century. Rebuilding slipping Powerglides was fun then. Now satisfaction is guaranteed with simple lines of code flashed to a car’s computer. We certainly have “mastered” the automobile. Hell, it doesn’t even have to burn gasoline nowadays. I’m betting VW wishes they had gone to electric power, even 50 cycle.
I’ve seen the running-on comments about VW diesel(ing).
(Can you help me with that door — I need to show myself out!)
Don’t ban DW I enjoy his acidic remarks.
He is Dobby in this world so cut him some slack, we are all he has.
Let the bitch slapping continue.
Crowd-sourced sword wielding moderators? I can feel the self importance building from here.
Seriously? Sending letters to Mark to urge a ban hammering? It’s not enough that you can easily scroll past the incoherent screeds just like I do? You need to start a movement of censorship?
I challenge the complainers to get off the internet before they discover YouTube or Trump supporter comments.
You gotta realize some commentors are on zanex, bipolar, drunk, etc. There’s quite a few that are deep in the their 60’s and act like big babies, repeating their nonsense/agenda over and over, to who ever will hear/engage them.
Say you’re at dinner party, formal, or BBQ, end up having a conversation with a clown that’s talking sh!t, do you walk away, forget it/mingle, or run and tell the host like you’re 12 years old?
Forget the moderators. Forget the ban hammer. Just don’t engage. Move on.
Just go back to the days of old where you got a week or so cooling off ban during which time your avatar was changed to the kid wearing the dunce cap.
And Oh Yeah…BRING BACK BERTEL!!!!!
Here’s how I recommend moderating: just don’t read the exchanges/posts of those that *might* offend you. If we moderate, then we run into issues with how different folks view what needs to be moderated. Management by committee and all that, you know?
My personal feelings on the whole DW/Bark exchange and some of BSTR’s comments I’ll leave to myself. Everybody can, at times, offer great insight into a given topic. One would hope folks here are mature enough to self-regulate and maintain some semblance of respect and decorum (one of the main reasons I think many of us have stuck around for so many years now), but if they can’t, I always have the option of simply skipping posts by those I know will potentially cause a temporary rise in my blood pressure.