I had somewhat of a unique high school experience, in the sense that it was the most after-school special, stereotypical experience possible. I went to a suburban school with just the right amount of ethnic diversity — which is to say that even the black and Hispanic and Asian kids listened to Pearl Jam and wore Ralph Lauren.
When it came to our first cars, we didn’t just go down to the local dirt lot and buy something with our savings from fast food jobs. No, we were spoiled brats who were given sensible compact to mid-sized sedans by our parents. We didn’t lust after MK II GTIs or Geo Storms — no, we sat around the lunch table in 1994 and debated the merits of the fifth-gen Honda Accord, the basic but steady Ford Taurus, and the GOAT XV10 Toyota Camry, especially the blingy “American Edition.”
As for me, I had my heart set on the recently introduced Nissan Stanza Altima.
My father and his wife had a matching set of Infiniti J30s, and the Altima was strikingly similar in design. I remember Brother Jack having a hell of a time selling J30s after the Altima dropped, even with those creepy AF Jonathan Pryce ads. There was even an advertised $199 a month lease. My dad couldn’t understand why I wanted a four-door sedan instead of something sporty — oddly enough, the young girls I went to school with found sensible and practical more attractive than sporty and sexy. It’s not surprising that the vast majority of them ended up becoming school teachers.
Ultimately, though, I ended up with the very first MK III Jetta sold in Ohio, a teal vision with 13-inch wheels and an 11 second 0-60 time. But whenever I see one of those first-generation Altimas rusting their way down the road, my inner 16-year-old has a slight pang of envy and regret that I didn’t get one.
Some other favorites of mine over the years:
The current Ford Fusion is, in my opinion, the best looking mid-sizer ever. Yes, the Aston Martin visual cues are ever present, but it’s one of the few mid-sizers that actually strikes a little bit of desire and envy in the hearts of the neighbors.
The aforementioned 1991-1996 Camry is considered by many people who care about such things to be Best Camry. My high school football coach had one, and he was the coolest teacher in the school (and everybody suspected that he was banging the cheerleading advisor, who was megahot).
I might be alone in this, but I always dug the 2008-2012 Chevrolet Malibu. It was a huge departure from the prior model and was the first American mid-sizer since the Taurus to be genuinely desirable. It won all sorts of COTY awards on its debut.
So which mid-sizer actually inspired lust in your heart? Which one crossed the threshold from appliance to art for you? We want to know!
If we count midsize coupes, I’m going with the ’91 Mazda MX-6. Lovely car.
For sedans, it was the ’86 Mercury Sable.
And the first Altima was nice looking, but the Camrys and Accords of the same day were rolling paragons of goodness.
This column brings back memories – my first car was a 1996 Altima with a 5-speed. That car took more abuse from 16-17 year old me than it ever deserved, and kept going like a champ. Since I was 16, I always wanted the spoiler like the one in the picture.
It actually started my family on a decade-plus relationship with Nissan, which finally ended getting rid of my Mom’s 07 Altima and my Dad’s 1st gen Xterra because they both turned out to be massive piles of garbage.
I agree with you on the Fusion. I had a company car of the first gen and it was both a nice driving and looking car. They’ve only gotten better. I don’t understand the Camry and Altima love – they become objects that everyone wants it seems because they are popular, but why buy one and option it out to $35K say 10 years ago when you could get into a Acura TSX for $29,500 well equipped and even get into a Lexus IS? Once the Altima or Camry went above $28 or $30K there were better options. PS. I thought I was the only one that liked the Malibu, though I prefer the 8th and especially 9th gen. The Buick Regal is another hidden gem – good looking and good to drive from 2010 on.
The Fusion is good looking, however the Mazda 6 is very attractive and to many more attractive than the Fusion.
At $35k a Camry, Accord, or Altima likely has a V6. The Acura TSX from 10 years ago was four cylinder only (it was a nice four, but doesn’t cut it if you want the power) and half a size smaller. The Lexus IS is a full size smaller.
New Malibu is very sleek looking car, it looks like luxury car. But as usual with GM vehicles interior is letdown. I simply cannot consider the car with such a cheesy interior no matter how good it is otherwise.
Agreed.
Fusion is good looking.
I’d take that 2008-2012 generation of Malibu after the 3.6 became available.
I also think the new Malibu actually looks alright but I’m mad that you can’t get the 2.0T in anything less than a Premier model for 2017 model year.
The 3rd generation Accord was a game changer. Catapulted Honda from a bit player into a major force in the industry.
Agreed. That was my first car and most people I know owned one or 2 of them and loved them. 3 of my friends all got white 2-door coupes at the same time with tinted windows and would drive in tandem looking like gangsters.
4th-Gen is still my ultimate benchmark, if only just, with the current ones a close 2nd. (The V6 POWAH is offset just a touch by the quality of interior fitments.)
If Honda keeps the same form-factor, size-wise, sweats a few more interior details (like carpeting a little over sprayed-in foam and trim that doesn’t nearly need to be vinyl-protected to prevent scratches), AND ESPECIALLY if they don’t $hit-can the V6 on the altar of CAFE and greenie-weenie-ism, it’s a guarantee that a 10th-Gen Accord will take up residence in my garage in a couple years. (If they do pi$$ on Soichiro’s grave by mandating a hamster-wheel, I’ll either see what the Hybrid is like, or pull the trigger on a 2017 Touring Sedan this coming spring, assuming I can get one in the color I’d want, then drive the wheels off it.)
Hands down and far-away the XV10 Camry (92-96). Let me explain:
Never before or since has there been a car company that threw so much engineering effort and care to get so many details right on a “plebian” mainstream sedan. As we are all painfully aware, not even Toyota has been able to ever get back to that apex in over-the-top overengineering of the “little” things that added up to a car the blew everyone else out of the water by a mile. A Maxima may have been faster and an Accord more engaging to drive and a Taurus may have been roomier, but nothing was put together or felt like a Camry of that generation. Read Mary Walton’s “Car” to get some inisght on that Camry from the perspective of the Ford engineers that were sent reeling after getting their hands on their first ’92 Camry V6 for comparative testing. The quality of interior materials both where you could and couldn’t see, the way all the buttons, stalks, and switches operated, the way the automatic transmission shifted and even the way the transmission shifter moved through the gate was a whole new ballgame for that class of vehicle.
That overengineering “fatness” that made them feel so nice when new has also resulted in some freakish-durability and longevity. It is not uncommon to see a clean and fairly rust free 92-96 Camry still doing daily driver duty in most parts of the country (yes in salt country too).
Allow me to wipe the drool of my keyboard.
Meh – for my money in 1992-1993 the dowdy Camry wasn’t even in the same league as the sleek Accord. The Honda drove and handled soo much better. better to look at and nicer to sit in.
Don’t get me wrong I love the Accord of that generation and agree that they are great driver’s cars. But take a drive in one of those Accords now and it feels ancient in terms of NVH engineering, very tinny and loud. Now take a drive in that dowdy Camry and I think you’ll agree it is more or less on par with most modern midsize sedans. That is the biggest and starkest difference IMO. Honda’s excellent-driving double wishbone suspensions don’t hold up nearly as well over bad roads either, and the automatic transmissions are pretty jerky (you just have to get the 5spd in one of those Accords anyways).
See what happens to “driver’s cars”?
Just say no.
My buddy had one so I rode in it quite a bit and even drove it once or twice. Don’t remember it being “tinny” but it was quite awhile ago. Unfortunately some gal in Duluth MN decided to ram it instead of dodge it in her PU. Didn’t stand much of chance being t-bone by a FS PU.
I think those Accords really checked all the boxes in terms of styling(interior/exterior), handling, build quality & reliability. I’ve always like them so I’m a little biased.
I towed cars part time in the 1990’s and both the Accord and Camry were vehicles that were pretty common but something I rarely(meaning pretty much never) had on the back on my truck strapped to the wheel lift.
No I hear you, I swapped the axles on one friend’s California-clean ’92 5spd EX coupe in seafoam green with 212k miles on it. I love the interior ergonomics and the zippy powertrain (and fantastic visibility/driving position), but it was definitely a buzz-box to drive on the highway (and even at lower speeds). I helped a different friend buy a ’92 DX sedan a few years before that, a Central NY two owner car with 130k miles that was only starting to get some rear quarter panel rot. Bought for $950, used for a few years and then sold for $1950 thanks to a well written ad with good photos. This one was an automatic, nice maroon velour interior. They’re fun to drive, even with the automatic IMO. But again, it felt very stuck in time due to the tire roar, wind noise, and the way you could hear the engine inside of the car (all can be part of “feeling” the car and the road to some, annoying noise to others).
I come from a line of Hondas old and new so I definitely “get” them. The Hondas impress with the connection the drive has to the car and the road. The Toyota impresses with the amount of work the engineers put into the car to isolate and make the passengers comfortable. That engineering effort was enough to make it (mostly) competitive on that front to cars made over 2 decades later (IMO). Both are built for the long haul, but the Toyotas’ non interference engines combined with simpler and more robust mcpherson front suspensions+ multi-link rear last longer in severe use+ neglect.
Yep your right his did run pretty fast on the highway. It was an automatic. That body style seemed to hold up to salty MN winters about as good as anything at the time if given a little care. His was starting to let go a little bit in the rear quarters before it got totaled.
My college roommate freshmen year had one of the original Civics. My first ride home with him he had that thing wound up to about 90 or 95 MPH running down the interstate trying to keep up with a BMW and a Trans Am. That was when the speed limit was 55. Needless to say he eventually blew the poor thing up because he drove it so hard. But he’s still driving a Honda.
The 5th-Gen Accords started the decline of the brand, and hit its nadir with the bloated, ticky-tacky 8th-Gen! The first ride in my Dad’s 1994 Accord told the tale: the carpet felt a little thinner, and the whole thing seemed a little less than the ingot of granite he had just turned in (a 1991). Honda redeemed themselves with the 9th-Gen, but we’ll see what happens with the 10th-Gen.
That ’92-’95 Camry was indeed engineered to Lexus standards.
Fourth-gen Accord if I’m driving (I got my driver’s license in a 1990 Accord LX automatic, and later owned a ’92 LX 5-speed coupe) but Fat Camry all the way if I’m a passenger.
The Toyotas were softer-sprung, quieter, and constructed with ever-so-slightly superior materials and panel fits. Lots of minor interior pieces in both Hondas eventually cracked (door handle surrounds), warped (clock), or broke completely (HVAC fan and temp knobs) but I don’t recall ever seeing so much as a broken ashtray cover in an XV10.
Nevertheless, no other Honda or Toyota sedan since has matched either of these cars for sheer fundamental goodness and engineering prowess. Everything you looked at, touched, or moved did so exactly like you thought it should. The early 90s were indeed a Golden Age for entertaining family cars.
Back then, my Dad used to scoff at the notion that, 25 years later, some folks would be as nostalgic for Camrys and Accords as he was at the time for ’65 Galaxies and Impalas. He doesn’t laugh anymore.
To be fair my ES300 has a) a crack on the driver’s side door armrest trim. b) had broken HVAC center vent vertical deflector-backing-thingies (all deflectors pointed in different directions) and c) the spring loaded fold out cupholders in the dash are no longer spring loaded. The most annoying was the HVAC vent thing, fixed with a used vent cluster from Ebay for $40 that I now use gingerly.
How many miles, if I may ask? The Hondas’ problems began popping up at around 50,000 miles. It was somewhat funny to watch the same pieces in my ’92 Accord follow essentially the same failure schedule as the ’90.
I forgot to note the weak power antenna masts (I replaced mine; Dad went the coat hangar route, LOL) and failed alternators at 80-85K. Dad had to pay for his; mine was covered by one of Honda’s infamous “silent recalls.”
Just about to hit 207k (it’s a ’96). Despite those things, the quality/richness/attention to detail on this thing is simply superb. It’s a very plain vehicle in the modern sense of gadgets, but I’d put it toe to toe with some much more expensive modern vehicles in terms of the aforementioned material quality and how well they are screwed together. One of my favorite features is the twin-projector headlight setup (low and high beams) that do a fantastic job of lighting the road at night. Does not feel two decades old in that sense at all.
Hold onto that car as long as you can!
“Drooling” over a ’90s Camry? Wow, you’re a *real* car guy.
If you can’t appreciate the gravity of the engineering and dedication to ‘getting it right’ on that car, I don’t know what to tell you. Go set a ferrari as your computer desktop background and fly your *real* car guy flag high!
LOL!
You’ve convinced me that the Camry in question is a lot better car than I would have given it credit for yesterday
I prefer the weird experimental first gen Camry myself, you could order it with a goofy digital cluster!
Amen brother. There’s just something rewarding about getting it right the first time and having it stay awesome.
I’m in a 2014 base Corolla rental right now…20k miles. Except for the exceptionally bad base level seat (first rule of the Toyota club: always get a power driver’s seat), this thing does everything I’m asking for it to do on the raceways called Houston. Fast? Not at all, but reliable, predictable and solidly built.
I’d have to go with a champagne 1994 Camry LE….they must of sold a million of them and most likely at full msrp. I’ll take the wagon version please…
Double wipers in back FTW! (Can replacement inserts still be found?)
There was a lot to “drool” about in those Camrys. gte is right on the money. Today you still see quite a few of them on the roads. Rare is the one with oil smoke out the back – these were superbly designed and executed. Dashboards typically remain crack free; my 92 Sable’s dash looks like the Grand Canyon in three spots. Triple door seal, variable speed hydraulic cooling fans on some models, just to name a few. Contrast that to the ’97 Camry, which was designed when Toyota went after market share and was concerned about currency exchange rates. These are the Toyotas that have bumpers with paint does not age with the sheetmetal and paint that peels its clearcoat. I see more of the older Camrys that the 97-01 models. The difference in aging is very obvious. So yeah, one can be a car guy and gush over a Camry.
I agree. I had a 1995 Tercel in High school (2004) and I got sick of my Tercel. I saved and bought my Grandparents 1992 Camry V6 LE. 80K, Was worth it in every regard. Drove it for ten years. What an amazing car. My 1999 Is ok, but the interiors to me, are like night and day. I truly understand why some people refer to Gen 4 as the “Rubbermaid Camry”.
For anyone interested, check out page 37 in the section from Mary Walton’s “Car” linked below, the chapter is titled “Dick Landgraff Takes a Ride.”
books.google.com/books?id=3xmDzzNiwiUC&lpg=PA45&ots=Kjw2E6o4BD&
;dq=%22Dick%20Landgraff%20Takes%20a%20Ride%22&pg=
PA37#v=onepage&q&f=false
It really sums up the point I and others have made in regards to the XV10, and of course puts things in context of how Ford’s Taurus engineers had to literally go back to the drawing board and add close to half a billion dollars in development cost to the DN101 (jellybean) Taurus program.
Agree on the Camry of that era, I owned an 86 and I recall renting a 92 when they first came out and the difference between the 2 was night and day. It was much superior to mine in every conceivable way.
I’d say the 4th Gen was the high point for the Accord and definitely one of the most/more desirable midsize cars.
Imo the Maxima from that time was the better car.
I have owned 3 4th gen Accords and 2 4th gen Maximas…. the Accords definitely had a nice charm about them and were really fun when you started bolting things on. But the Maxima was just such a great highway car. IF I had to choose between the two I’d probably go with the Accord simply because the Maxima’s transmissions were both abysmal. But the Accord would need an engine swap ASAP.
…The aforementioned 1991-1996 Camry…
This is it. As reliable as an anvil, superior build quality, high quality materials, rich content for the price, smooth power, fairly priced, relatively easy to service, good driving dynamics by any measure within the class for the time. The Honda Accord was more sporting and is also close but this is it, and if you want to get real specific, the 95 or 96 would be the GOAT.
The ’97 Camry, followed by the ’98 Corolla was the start of the bean counters beginning to take hold at Toyota, and it’s been generally speaking a very slow, very gradual downhill slide since. The Camry is still a solid offering, but a 2016 Camry is not even close, when judged on build quality, materials, and content, to a 1996 Camry (mandated safety standards aside)
You can get a ’96 Camry in terms of build quality, features and “fatness”, but it’s badged with an “L” now.
The ’96 Camry was a good car, but you can’t make a car with that level of cost for the equivalent selling price. Lexus exists for this reason.
psar, I think the point you’re making is correct. However even many new Lexus models fall somewhat short on the interior materials quality front compared to the fattest of fat Camrys. My parents’ ’09 RX350 is really nicely trimmed. My fiance’s dad’s ’13 ES300h has some hard plastic in places were my ’96 ES is all soft touch and carpet lined, and a bit less attention to detail in a few spots. Lexus more or less went through the same decontenting that their equivalent Toyota models did, the standards are just shifted and as a result the blow is lessened.
Acura is the same way, as far as interior fitment, though they never did measure-up to Lexus to begin with.
I have seen many, MANY first gen GX Suv’s with horrible cracked dashes. I heard Lexus was offering free replacements now. You make a good point about changes in Lexus over the years as well.
As an ex-owner of a Geo Storm GSi AND a MK III GTi all I can say is I bought those cars because those were the only cars I could afford that had an i in their names.
N-Body or GTFO!
Olds Achieva is the best.
Well my sister loved hers but she was leaving behind a 1982 Celebrity when she got a V6 (under)Achieva.
You’re always pushing that N-body.
ODB Achieves.
I’m helping a coworker buy his first car (Haitian guy who currently commutes something crazy like 1.5 hours each way by bus) with a budget of $3k. I just so happen to specialize in this price segment :) so I’ve been perusing craigslist for worthy candidates. My usual standby Camrys/Avalons are a bit thin on the ground currently in this age/price category so I’m looking at some other options. There’s a really tidy single owner ’97 Grand Am for sale ($2k, 155k miles), I might end up looking at that for him. It’s got the 2.4L “twin cam” motor and 4spd auto, and good god the interiors in them are horrid! Also following up on some W and H body leads so you guys don’t think I’m too biased :) One is a really nice looking Lumina with 104k miles on the 3.1L V6, and a super clean exterior/interior. The other is a dealer-trade in 02 Lesabre with 121k. One “out there” candidate is a 199k mile ’92 Legend with a single ownership history with full documentation of headgasket being replaced a while ago (heads milled, the whole 9 yards) as well as t-belt and all the usual good stuff. I love the ownership history but boy that is a pretty rare car to find parts for these days. Shout out to our resident Taurus aficionado, a ’98 Sable (121k miles, a suspiciously low $1k price) is also a prospect.
It’d be cool to start a youtube channel documenting cheap used car scouting with hidden cameras and mics and everything.
I’ve already sniffed out one curbstoner selling a seemingly clean’98 Accord:
“when’s the t-belt been done, how long have you owned the car?”
“which one? I’m selling a couple”
“Accord. Are you the actual owner or are you flipping it?”
“….”
never did get back to me lol
Yikes I’m not digging any of that for long daily commute. What year Lumina?
I say 3800 of course but Legend sound tempting but I feel like a MY92 anything is going to need things once it is pressed into regular service.
Well I wouldn’t disagree with any Oshawa made Buick with the 3800 in it.
Well the 1.5 hours is with switching buses and whatnot, in a straight shot drive it’s right around 1hr. Definitely a ton of miles to be piling on a sub-$3k car. Frankly my ES would be a perfect fit if I were selling it, but I’m not. The guy should just move closer to work to be honest.
Lumina:
indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5901199620.html
That Lumina might be a decent buy as it is pre-Dexcool and thus would not have had any issues with acidic coolant (or the Orange Death).
No Legend as the only daily driver. Parts are too hard to find. Virtually everything is unique because of the oddball platform and powertrain shared with very few other US Hondas. The thing is very reliable but anything with 199k will break and it will be a pain in the butt to fix. It’s a great car to own when I can leave it in the shop for a week if needed while I and/or they scramble to find the part.
Out of that group I think I’d pick the LeSabre if it looks in good condition.
I’m very pro-Buick V6, but this is a job for the Panther platform.
I dunno, I think panther fuel bill would be a bit of a killer, plus early morning winter commuting in a RWD for a new driver might be a handful. I do appreciate their resilience and durability.
There’s always this beauty….
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5885369407.html
Avalons are slim pickins right now, but there are a few:
this one’s been for sale for a looong time, not a good sign when it’s that cheap
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5850112538.html
most hopeful for this one:
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5889562249.html
astro-mileage gen 1
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5851767617.html
going down the ladder of sophistication, this one-photo ad of a corolla looks promising:
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5881320494.html
The biggest problem in my eyes for whatever I can hunt down is that I don’t have my brother nearby to direct this guy to for some very affordable and thorough baseline repairs/maintenance. While I certainly have some aptitude myself, I’m not about to subject myself to changing a timing belt in the freezing cold (even if I’m getting paid). With a budget of $3k, I recommended the fellow focus on cars in the $2k range to leave him some cushion for the inevitable repairs that a cheap car (whether it is $2k or $3k) will need.
With the exception of my deceased grandparents, most people would not consider Panther to be midsize. That said, I work in local gov’t and occasionally make excuses to borrow a P71 CVPI that a colleague normally uses, in lieu of the 04 Taurus Wagon assigned my department. Besides the nostalgia of the transmission whine and column shifter, I do love how easy it is to drive. Great visibility, and handles like a much smaller car. I have no problems parallel parking it quickly. Yeah it is rattly, and the cop interior sucks, but in Grand Marquis spec, hmmm…
Get him a dirt cheap mkiv with a 2 liter and 5 speed. My wife and I tried hard to destroy that thing. It didn’t budge.
Hmm the guy wants an automatic, are those older VW autos any good? I recall them having issues. Plus you still have window regulator crap to deal with (real pain to fix according to my sources).
Ah curbstoners, when shopping cheap cars I have to put up with far more curbstoners than I care to recall despite it being illegal in my state.
I’d just grab a Buick 3800 myself if not an Olds, good underrated cars they are.
As for a Panther, they’re full-size imo. Good cars but some prefer FWD
So coincidentally my fiance’s sister’s bf came to me for used car shopping help, so I’m doing double time now. His requirements: newer than ’03 and 4 doors do to Uber driving on the side (he’s finishing an undergrad degree and sticking around for a grad program). Budget is $4-4,500. This one is definitely tougher.
Went and looked at a decent ’06 Fusion (SEL, 2.3L manual) that had what felt like a clutch on its last legs, leaking valve cover gasket and worn swaybar links in front. The last two problems are pretty easy fixes. The clutch, not so much. Super tidy interior though, and all original bodywork and paint.
Next was a clean (looking) ’03 Camry XLE V6 with only 117k miles that turned out to be a rebuilt mess. Guy claimed to have already bought it repaired (only owned it 4 months). But looking at another car in his driveway that looked like an in-progress bodywork job, he was full of it. Front end had been wrecked pretty good, and rebuilt with terrible panel fit and even worse paint work. Transmission shifted funny, and the seatbelt light kept blinking. Also the pass. airbag was most likely missing. Just a total mess and a waste of time.
Finally we looked at an ’04 Accord LX sedan (4cyl, auto, 150k, $3900 asking). A bit rough around the edges: resprayed front and rear bumpers (but decently done), some rust along the edge of the hood, a dent on driver side pass door. But it had new Michelin tires on it, it has obviously been well maintained with synthetic oil changes, the ATF fluid looked/smelled good and the car drove great. Suspension was tight with no clunks, transmission shifted great, engine sounded and drove healthy. Interior was also very clean. We reached a tentative deal for $3800 but there was another person coming to look after us. They ended up buying it for the asking price on the spot so we’re back on the prowl.
Back to the initial long-commute small budget first car scenario, how about this beast?
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5905777444.html
Plenty of budget left over for snow tires.
Going in the opposite direction size wise and MPG wise, there’s stuff like this Civic:
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/5885243225.html
T-belt done at 105k so that’s the most crucial thing. Aside from that there’s really not a whole lot wrong that can go with one of those in my experience, and parts are cheap+ easy to work on, easy to drive and park for a beginner.
We really need to bring back Pontiac so there can be a GTFO.
I believe the G8 was technically a mid-sizer. So… G8 GXP 6MT FTW.
If that’s not available, I’d take back my 2003 Accord V6 6-speed or my parents’ 2002 Buick Regal GS (Joseph Abboud with the Monsoon sound system).
May my 1995 Skylark rot in Hell.
The Thunderbird has its fair share of problems but nothing will ever match the rage-inducing experience of scraping ice off the INSIDE of the windows on cold winter mornings.
Most all mid size cars (or any vehicle) are as desirable as each other. Pricing has a lot to do with sales.
Why you ask. Because those who want them are constrained and have a higher suceptabiliy of being a bore. The wife dictates this what you buy as the family comes first. The only lesser types are the van drivers with fish emblems and those pathetic carictures of their family plastered on the rear windows.
The average Joe most likely would rather have a different set of wheels.
So many who are stuck with a FWD sh!tbox midsize only have themselves to blame. Get a better job, re-educate so you can afford to own something better than the excitement or equivalence of a flaslight.
These vehicles are the reason CUVs, SUVs and pickups are selling better.
The change or move out of midsize cars also disproves we are worst off. People no longer want to drive a sh!tter appliance.
Best of all more and more are disregarding sh!tbox midsize cars.
Because more and more can …… globally.
Nice contribution BAFO: rambling and incoherent response that never answers the question and somehow manages to insult vast quantities of people with broad generalizations. If only we could all own BT-50s!!!
Top form.
Just think; it’s still morning where they keep him.
Do you think that zoo gets many visitors?
Not really gtemnykh.
The demise of the midsize sedan is due to better alternatives.
The midsize sedan has been the staple for the true Blue Collar worker. Hence a basic family appliance. And trust me wives have the most influence in the family car.
Yes we seem to be more affluent to be better able to afford and operate CUVs, SUVs and pickups. Affluence is not only related to increasing pay packets, but also the costs incurred in owning and operating a vehicle.
Oh, I do know you are fully aware of how best to address me. Thanks for your misunderstanding and future improvement in communicating with me.
Thanks again.
I’m gonna have to defend Big Al here. Not many people buy a mid-size sedan because they really really want a mid-size sedan. It’s just the default car. You go into a shop and say, ‘I want a car’ and the salemans says, OK, what kind of car? ‘just a car’ you answer, not a wagon or coupe or van or truck, or hatchback, or anything that needs any form of explanation or demands any interest, just ‘a car’.
It will ofend some people because the ‘default’ car will be something a lot of people have bought, and driven, and liked. But besides a couple of ‘premium’ sedans, and some Accords from about the mid-80’s to the mid-90’s, almost no one has ever really lusted for, or ‘loved’ a sedan.
That doesn’t mean they are inherently bad or anything, it’s just that they’re the least interesting car you can have, although they can be spiced up a bit, just to be more interesting than competing sedans. Still not quite as interesting as a van or as good looking as a Coupe. Or as cool as a truck, or even as comfortable and roomy as a fullsize sedan.
This class can be described as the least crappy car for my money and monthly payment.
speedlaw,
Midsize cars do represent the best compromise for FE, size (for the average US family of 1.8), power, comfort/handling, vs price.
This is why they are the true Blue Collar vehicle and not pickups. But they are being replaced with a better ute, the CUV.
Thanks Zykotec,
My comments have a degree of truth and confronting humour.
Being an American and the US being my second home I do see lots of false paradigms driven by emotion and nostalgic distortion on the truth here at TTAC.
Some of the insecure types are easily identified.
I love the US, but I do belive my ideals and comprehension of the auto industry and economics are generally spot on.
I vehemently support free speech, so long as your actions don’t negatively impact others.
My comments can be confronting, but they are designed to be …. with truth.
“how best to address me”
Son of Samson? You’ve got your Dad’s affinity for automotive things:
media.jrn.com/images/4270_large.jpg
“Pricing has a lot to do with sales.”
So THATS why the Chrysler 200 is now the best selling car! And why the Suzuki Verona outsold the Camry and Accord… I guess Suzuki-Daewoo just couldn’t keep up with demand and had to shut it down? Shame.
And its a shame all those people FORCED to buy a Camry because what they really need is a Tacoma TuRD 4×4 to go to Walmart and then the junior high school. Better get a winch installed and like five LED light bars, because those curbs at Starbucks are AWFUL!
“So many who are stuck with a FWD sh!tbox midsize only have themselves to blame.”
Maybe ONE DAY I will come up, get me a super deluxe job at the Job Store, and maybe, just maybe, I’ll be a good enough person to drive a pickup truck made in Thailand.
That is the only measure of success, and 83.972% of people know it. And 92.83999% of the other people suspect it.
I just HATE something that handles well, is comfortable for me and 3 or four others, is affordable and gets great MPG. Its awful to live with: $20 should get me a half tank, max, not a full one! And I sure wish it would disappear in half the time, that would really be nice. Only then could I stand the person staring back at me in the mirror.
My non-existent wife made me buy it, anyway.
(Just PLEASE don’t tell her about my boyfriend. God knows I can’t afford a divorce from her if I’m gonna own that glorious Thialand pickup one day!)
“and maybe, just maybe, I’ll be a good enough person to drive a pickup truck made in Thailand”
That made me LOL.
Quentin,
Country of manufacture has little to do with a vehicle’s quality.
Vehicle manufacture is done in many countries. Because a US (Mexican even) built vehicle is no better or in many cases worse than what’s available extetnal to NAFTA.
Yup I own a Thai built vehicle. From my observation Thai built is superior to NAFTA built.
“So many who are stuck with a FWD sh!tbox midsize only have themselves to blame.”
You are wrong. I drive a Camry Hybrid. I have homes on the east and west coast in zip codes that rank in the top end of the top 10. I don’t want be exposed to robbery in lesser areas by driving a big price vehicle. That is how you survive in this world. You need to slide through unnoticed. Sporting around in a new BMW or Range is a risk to your life.
My opinion is the pretend rich need to be seen in a higher end vehicle. The true wealthy need to hide it with a Camry.
My neighbor in Corona Del Mar ( a coastal section of Newport Beach, Ca ) refuses to drive the 2015 Range HSE outside of Newport Beach or Laguna Beach city borders. When headed into Los Angeles, his 2011 Camry is the vehicle of choice. In my case, I just drive my 2014 Camry everywhere. My Camry is the hubcap model.
One more comment. Many wealthy seem to gravitate to the Prius as their undercover vehicle. I think the Prius attracts too much attention. I prefer the Camry or Accord.
jimmyy,
I have friend who drives around in an old Accord in Miami and he had a large realestate portfolio. Another friend in Miami is an lawyer and his primary vehicle is a 12 year old Lexus.
My comment was directed at the majority that own a mid size sedan.
I agree many own vehicles that probably stretch their finances a little too much. These people use their vehicles as a facade.
I’d say the average mid size sedan owner can’t afford much else. If they could they would be driving a CUV or something.
As I pointed out the mid size sedan is the current Blue Collar drive and not pickups.
Buick Regal Grand National
Indeed!
The 1986 Honda Accord LXi with the 5-speed, in dark gray. If I had gotten one of those instead of an (cool, but troublesome) Audi Quattro, I would probably still be driving it today.
Mmmmm make mine a wine-red LXi hatchback (5spd of course) with a maroon velour interior.
Mine was a dark blue sedan with the blue interior and velour upholstery. Manual 5 speed. Had the dealer install an A/C unit as Mr. Honda did not allow them from the factory and a third brake light as they were not legally mandated at that time.
Yes please!
I had a battered ’88 LX automatic, blue on blue.
Loved so many things about that car, but the carbureted engine was a giant steaming pile of junk. I might still have mine today if it had been an ’88 or ’89 LXi with the 122-hp injected engine and a stick. Instead I sent it with my ex to New Hampshire to rust to death over the following three winters, shortly after buying my first-ever new car, a 2004 Acura TSX.
GTBF
(Got to be Ford!)
I went to high school in the late 90s/early 2000s, and have experience with nearly all the cars Bark has mentioned here. A buddy had the J30 during high school, and I remember it being a pretty nice car at the time. I vaguely see the resemblance to that Altima (which I’ve also driven), but they really are in different leagues. My first car was a MKI Jetta, and my second a MKII GLi – I was a huge BMW fan at the time, and that was the closest thing I could get into. Found Japanese cars boring (although my ownership experiences have flipped that thinking). So for me, a MKIII Jetta would have been waaaaay more desirable than the Altima… almost can’t fathom having that attraction.
As for most desirable mid-sizer? That’s pretty broad. I still think the E39 5-series is the most beautiful mid-size sedan ever. However from a practical standpoint, I’m going to have to agree with others on the XV10 Camry. My little league baseball coach drove one during the mid nineties, and I remember being blown away by how superior it felt to my mom’s Taurus. Haven’t had that experience since. He was a pretty well off attorney, and I remember him saying that he saw no point to the Lexus when compared to the XLE.
I have to agree with the BMW E39, a well maintained 540i is still better looking and faster than most 2016 cars.
“a well maintained”
It’d be a real hoot to see THAT “maintenance” history in 2016. I appreciate what they are and love the way they look, but man those are trouble, even the lower trim six cylinder cars.
I have a colleague who quite recently (with his third child coming) replaced his well maintained E39 Touring with a VW van. It was a base model 520i, manual, and he assured me he could keep it running with less than 2k in repair cost each year (doing all the work himself offcourse), and that it was definitely worth it compared to any other similar car he could have bought, because of the comfort/handling etc. I’ve never been a fan,as I think the E34 was just much better looking. But, good E34’s have been hard to find for a long time already…
“could keep it running with less than 2k in repair cost each year (doing all the work himself offcourse)”
I mean I’d totally believe that, in fact it seems steep if its parts only. But that sort of spending on car upkeep is simply unpalatable to the vast majority of car owners (Asian and domestic owners I suppose).
Here’s my breakdown for my $1600 ES300 so far:
$148 full brake kit (f/r rotors and pads)
$30 OEM rear swaybar bushings
$180 Aisin T-belt+waterpump kit
$15 good quality p/s+ alternator/AC belts
$6 blower motor transistor block (junkyard)
$40 replacement HVAC center vents (ebay)
$56 steel wheels
$260 new snow tires (actually free, long story)
$62 tire mounting
$375 labor at my bro’s shop to install T-belt and pump, replace all other belts, new coolant, align headlights, fix foglight bracket, install transistor block, diagnose clunk (tightened axle hub nut, ideally needs a better quality axle), tighten throttle and cruise cables, adjust parking brake, replace license plate bulbs, re-torque spark plugs (front ones were scary loose).
Come spring I’m going to get new touring tires for the alloy wheels ($400ish?), and will probably install quick struts in the rear ($130 per side) to deal with a bit of spring sag and struts that are just starting to make a bit of noise. Oh and a new wheel speed sensor to fix my ABS ($75 for a good quality part) So costs are adding up somewhat, but this is normal for a “baselining” as I call it. After that I fully expect it to be largely oil changes and stuff like that for several years after that, if my 20 year old 4Runner is any guide (did a similar baselining to it as well when I bought it in 2013).
My anecdotal experience in cost of keeping an E39 going about 17k miles per year for the past 4 years has met my (admittedly low) expectations. Recently reviewed my records and costs have averaged $2600 per year, excluding tires, doing very little of the work myself. Worth it to me, but I’m sure not to most people
Edit for Ajla: it’s an M5 (V8, 6-speed)
I think my 540 averaged about $3k a year, though that includes maintenance such as tires, brakes, and oil changes. I didn’t do much work myself either.
$2k/year just for parts should keep a 520 in top condition with plenty of room to spare.
@Ramrod:
You have a V8 or I6 and automatic or manual?
I actually own an E39 540i, it runs like a top, and maintaining it is a lot cheaper than leasing a new piece of junk econobox. No 4 cylinder front wheel drive here, it blows by just about everything you actually see on the road and has an awesome ride quality. I actually take pride in maintaining it because unlike Camcords, Buicks, etc it has an enduring style, still looks great after 18 years. Most other 18 year old cars look and feel very dated.
‘97.5-’04 Buick Regal
Sweet spot of spaciousness, ride quality, comfort, quietness, efficiency, robust contruction, dependability, 3800 Series II, surprisingly handsome styling, and available supercharged GS variant…all for under $28k loaded at the time.
A well-kept triple black Regal GS with chrome 16″s is still a sexy sleeper today.
“ride quality”
“robust construction”
I gotta say, W-bodies always feel like the front subframe is off doing it own thing somewhere out in front. Not a diss on the longevity of them, but just a disconcerting sensation that takes away from the overall “solidity” of the platform. Drive an Impala Limited and something like a gen 1 Cruze back to back and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
Probably because the sub-frame IS off doing its own thing. They have a disconcerting tendency for the bushings to fail.
Always weird to see the steering wheel go in one direction and see the sub-frame shift in another.
I don’t know if this was something peculiar to just W-body GM cars (notably in my experience its all been Impalas) or due to their popularity in my area that’s all I notice.
Even the Cadillac DTSs I’d drive on business felt like those W-bodies.
Except for the Beretta/Corsica (and I can’t figure our what the General did differently), EVERY SINGLE GM FWD…Celebrity, Citation, Cavalier…Malibu before 2008…felt like that.
At least the new ones are much better.
“always feel like the front subframe is off doing it own thing somewhere out in front.”
The Chrysler LH-platform cars are terrible about this in my experience.
I had one of the first GS’s which evently received a smaller supercharger pulley and lifted speed limiter would run in the low 13’s @ 102 mph or about the same as a similar year C5 Corvette with automatic.
It went 140+ mph on one run, no front subframe problems. It did have an Addco 3/4″ upgraded rear sway might have help tiddy up the front end.
Acura Legend.
The correct answer.
Even the Vigor was a very sharp, crisp sedan, though the Legend was better in terms of driving dynamics.
I do think a 3 Series Bimmer is better.
After 20 years you may as well go with the BMW, tis the more genuine article.
You beat me to my reply by a several miles – I just saw your mention now. I had a brand new 95 Legend GS Coupe as my first car in HS at the time. That car was amazing.
Yes, I always liked the original Acura Legend. Looked like a very nice car. Even had the chance to ride in one once, and I thought it pretty nice. Still like the looks of them.
I’ll second this. I had a black 1988 with tan leather (gifted down from my dad who bought it new). Wonderful car. Just the perfect combination of luxury/sportiness and the ideal size. They’ve been failing to match it ever since.
2nd gen Taurus SHO, especially in that green metallic. I still see 2 or 3 of these running around fairly well maintained and they’ve aged very well.
W212 E63S, the ultimate daily if you’ve got the income.
I was going to say that, but in red. I put nearly 80k miles on mine. 5sp manual with the moonroof.
It also had the best looking engine of anything short of a Ferrari.
Yep. That or a Maxima of similar vintage.
Yes, although not a Ford guy, I always really liked the second generation Taurus, especially an SHO, in red or green.
B3 Passat, especially with the VR6 and a manual trans. No grille good looks (for the time), a reclining back seat, and a sexy wagon version on offer if needed.
I just recently bought a ’92 Honda Accord (wagon) with a 5 spd and I love the heck out of it. It gets great mileage, and is actually quite fun to drive with the manual trans. I wish they made a car like it today.
I also recently owned a 2nd Gen Taurus, ’95, very different appeal than the accord but had it’s own set of advantages. Unfortunately it’s AX4S was its achilles heel and it is no longer. I always thought the styling was great, the 3rd gen looked dated quickly and the 4th looked a little cheap in my opinion.
1. Kizashi
2. Galant Ralliart
3. Dodge Lancer / Lebaron GTS
ajla,
Aren’t those small cars?
I am an unabashed fan of the jellybean Taurus, especially in SHO form. It is wholly unloved for many very good reasons, but it’ll always have a special place in my heart.
My first car was a handmedown 98 Explorer XLT. It was a great car and very fun/luxurious, but I worked my butt off in high school and felt like I should be able to buy a car for myself that I wanted, not one that was chosen for me. So I gave the explorer back to my parents and got myself a 97 V6 Mustang.
It was the worst car I ever owned. Easily. I hated it. I had it for 3 months before selling it for a 98 red(ish) jellybean Taurus with the 200hp duratec engine. It ran like a top and dealt with all sorts of obscene abuse that I put it through over the next 3 and a half years and ended up saving my life when I was hit by a drunk driver. The roof had to be cut off of it to get me out, and I was not able to walk away, but it was one helluva wreck and I was lucky to get out with ‘just’ a broken femur.
My parents bought my brother a V-6 Mustang, same year. I also hated it. I didn’t even know the 3.8L was such a pig then, but I didn’t like it at all. My mom got a 1997 Mercury Sable GS and I loved it. I drove it to high school a lot, leaving my string of terrible import cars at home if I could possibly swing it. Luckily, my Tercel wagon had this great habit of refusing to start for no reason. Gee, mom, looks like I gotta take the Sable again! Gosh, its just terrible! Lol
First time I’ve ever been over 100 mph was in that Sable. My buddy was like “I saw you going past 100 and I got scared, then I thought, man, this thing is really stable at this speed”. Lol indeed it was. Those cars do drive well, and as you know from first-hand experience, they’re very safe.
I think some of you are missing a major point of today’s cars versus cars of the past. Smaller windows and slopped roofs on new cars might look nice but they are harder to see out of and less roomy in the back. Also many of these midsize cars come with smaller trunks, no spare tires, and 4 cylinder turbo engines instead of a V-6. Many want a vehicle that is easier to see out of, has more leg and head room, a spare tire, and more room to haul people and things. For a little more money you can buy a vehicle with more room and better suited for most families.
The one I wanted: 4DSC Maxima with a stick. Hell, I still want one.
The one I had: Vulcan-powered Taurus, less than half the price of a Maxima of similar age/mileage.
But I went to a wealthy enough school that most of the other kids were driving new Explorers or Grand Cherokees. The parents all showed up in 300Es and Acura Legends.
dal, I had the 4DSC Maxima with automatic. ’92, first year of the twin cam. It was a stretch to afford it, but it was soooo worth it, and I kept it till 17 years and 170,000 blissful miles. It’s all shameless sentiment, but it’s my pick four shure.
Ah, I see cgjeep said it right under me.
How is it possible that no one has mentioned the 88-94 Nissan Maxima. The original 4dsc ones. Good power, good handling, long lasting, clean lines, they were perfect.
Yes the Camary of that era was better built but the Maxima was built well enough and way more fun to drive
Second choice would be the mid 90’s Mazda 626 with the 2.5V6 and a manual. I had that engine in a Ford Probe GT and I still miss the sound it made. Like ripping silk around 6500rpm.
You must have been writing your comment as I wrote mine directly above it :)
Yes I was
My mom had a green ’94 626 with the 2.5 V6 and a stick. That was a sweet ride. Its whopping ~160 hp seemed mega back then, and it had those trick oscillating vent fans! That car passed down to my brother as his ride through law school, the lucky bum.
I’ve owned both a ’93 and a ’00 626, and while the ’93 had decidedly more style, the ’00 might have been the best of the last generation: Mazda undid the suspension softening they’d done on the ’98-’99, and somehow they coaxed 130 hp out of that little DOHC four. Better yet, the Ford-sourced 4-speed automatic, one of the brighter such units, had received some necessary fixes to what I considered blatant design flaws. My own ’00 needed about $300 in repairs in six years, and two-thirds of that came from a windshield replacement.
Fourth generation Honda Accord (1989-1993). Looked classy and expensive, was engineered to an incredible standard, absolutely reliable. Preferred choice: EX black over tan interior, manual transmission – sublime. The everymans’ drivers car. Read the new C&D 10-Best issue and it’s the same as it ever was. The 1992 Camry was equally good, but more conventional and sedate than the Accord (ie BMW vs. M-B). The forth generation Accord and 1992 Camry mark the turning point in the midsize sedan market towards Honda and Toyota dominance.
Yes, those era Hondas are very nice.
At one point in time, my brother had a black 1992 EX Accord coupe manual, I had a black 1992 Integra GSR, and my parents had a silver 1992 Camry V6….Japanese excellence.
4th gen Accord was introduced in 1990. 3rd gen was 1986-89 with the flip-up headlights.
I used to own a ’90 Accord 2.2 manual. Basically the top of the line here in Europe at least. And much more car in every way than the carburated 2.0. Only downside I can remember was the carrier-like turning circle (but they were available with 4WS)
Funny anecdote, we used my car to tow some scrap car to the junkyard, a friend drove the Accord while I was in the car behind, and the Accord really didn’t block the view much at all because of the insanely huge windows, making it the most relaxed towing I’ve ever been part of.
Maybe potentially a downside with the windows, since you almost felt like you were on display all the time driving it.
Being a sedan it had limited practicality (but this is Norway, so it had a tow-hook) and it didn’t look as good as the coupe, but I drove it for two whole years. (sold it with about 250k miles on it)
Owned a few and looked at many Accords, they had very nice interiors but I could live without their brake design, their wheezy interference 4s, their notoriously thin sheet metal.
The 6th gen was a step up, crappy v6 autos aside.
Supercharged 3800 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (1997-2003).
Any 3.6L V6 powered Epsilon body. With a preference for the Saturn Aura XR.
2.OL turbo Malibu (2013-2016 version)
Outlier: 1995 Eagle Vision TSi
My dad had a TSi with the Infinity stereo. Fast car, comfy, great cruiser, much cooler than the Dodge and Chrysler variants, went through five AC units in the six years we owned it. He’s owned nothing but Hondas or Acuras ever since.
My grandma has a 2008 base model Aura with the 3.6. 29,000 miles. I cannot stand the GM build quality. Feels very cheesy. It is nowhere near my 2007 Honda Accord in terms of quality.
Who gives a s**t? Really.
I love that this was the 66th comment on this thread. No one, obviously.
“Who gives a s**t? Really.”
Seriously.
“Who Was The Bestest County Auditor EVER??!!”
Surprisingly many, I kinda don’t. I’m not weeabo enough to love everything Japan.
1993 J-VIN Dark Green Pearl Toyota Camry SE V6 5 sp manual.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm.
Previous generation Impala.
From the 1980s, I liked the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham four door (made for, I think, only a few years during the early 1980s).
From the 1990s, I liked the late 1990s Ford Contour (made, I think, for the 1998-2000 model years).
In the “ancient” world I grew up in, the 1968-1972 GM mid-sizers; Chevelle, Skylark, Tempest, Cutlass. None better, ever.
Now? New Malibu, Fusion – a very pretty car, Accord, Camry. Nobody else.
FINALLY! I was going to say ’69 Chevelle SS396, but it’s covered in that list.
my wife owned an altima almost exactly like the one pictured when we got married. It was a terrible piece of crap. 6 years old and all the interior plastics had already deteriorated. It was reliable, if supremely unexciting.
OK I had a Honda Accord 2005 manual with the 2.4l. Nice but dull. Dull like all mid size sedans. I owned an Audi 100 ls once, not dull at all but not in a good way.
An Audi A6 is the least dull, in my opinion.
Out of all the sedans I’ve owned (roughly 15% of my total) 3/5 have been Audi 100’s, and I fin they do all kind of sedan things very well. I painted flames on my ’95 Audi 100 2.5 V6 just so I could find it though. In Norway those and Passats and the 5-series were basically the Camcordtimas, and the E-class was the standard Taxi.
There are no desirable mid-size sedans.
There are only desirable pickup trucks…
========================
Wow. I personally think that generation Altima are some of the ugliest cars ever made. It warms my heart to hear at least someone cares for them. A friend had one. Every time he attempted a three point turn – which invariably meant a five point turn due to the ridiculous turning radius – we both laughed uncontrollably. It was the only gracious response to his temporary lot in life as a grad student driving that hateful piece of garbage.
I’m not sure if it would be classified as a midsizer or larger due to its interior volume, but I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the two Merkur Scorpios I owned. Technically I still own one of them, but it needs transmission and A/C work, which I doubt I can justify at this point. Still, it has the nicest seats I’ve ever sat in, and amazing leather on every seat surface….and I mean EVERY seat surface, even areas you can’t see, like behind the rear armrest when folded up and inside the seatback map pockets.
You nailed it with those generations of the Fusion, Camry and Malibu. I would add the pop-up headlamp Accord, ’02 big Altima and maybe the ’97 Passat. If you wanted to stretch beyond mid-sedan I would include the ’89 Maxima and ’05 300C.
Not counting luxury cars I’m going to have to run with the Pontiac G8.
Being just slightly older, the mid-size car that most of my high school classmates lusted after was the third generation Chevelle, or one of its siblings. The mid size Mopar guys wanted Satellites and the Ford guys wanted Fairlanes.
What most of us had, though, were smaller. There were lots of Novas, Camaros, Mustangs, Falcons, Darts and even the occasional Javelin. Also, because I went to a rural school, lots of mid to late ’60s and early ’70s trucks.
While none of the stuff we drove is anywhere near as reliable as the cars Bark is writing about, what we had was still better. I can’t help but feel a little sorry for the kids who dreamed of owning an Altima…
Yeah, Slant 6 Valiant / Dart with RWD, column shifted auto, bench front seat, wide flat back seat… The radio sucked, but it was a car, not a studio. Sure, a big block B or something like it would be more everything, but with the slant 6 you had money left to do something when you got there.
I liked the Accord, but the Camry seems to hold up even better, and it’s a bit more comfy. Neither is bad, but my preference is the Toyota, even if I love the styling of the Honda.
I had a 2000 Chevy Malibu. It wasn’t super stylish, it wasn’t sought-after or loved. But it had a few nice features and was comfy enough for long trips. Dirt cheap to fix (did a lot of my own work), and was plenty reliable. I liked it for it’s practicality and big trunk.
Hated it for its tendancy to rust. But I had to real complaints. I bought it in 2009 during a rough spot with 100k miles on it for $500 from a friend who wanted rid of it (reminded her of her ex). Nothing wrong with it (not even rust, then). Just needed tires. Drove it for five years and 70,000 miles. I’d do it again, despite what people think of them.
I worked for an Infiniti and Nissan dealer when the Altima was introduced. It was just similar enough in appearance, specs and price to the original P10 Infiniti G20 to make me wonder WHY Nissan needed it. To me it felt and looked cheap compared to the G20. I would nominate the G20 as my favorite midsized car of that era, especially a 5-speed G20T. The SR20DE engine was a little jewel and they handled great. I still think the styling looks fresh and contemporary even today, although I rarely see them on the road any more.
I had the “P11” G20 that was made from 98-02. It was my first new “nice” car and also my first Japanese car after being die hard “American made”. That car converted me.
I wasn’t as big fan though of the engine, it felt thrashy and underpowered to me, but it was paired with an auto transmission. They did however gear it well for torque around town, but if you really needed passing power, it just didn’t seem to be there.
Otherwise though, just a really well put together car that felt far more expensive than it actually was. The G35 after that felt chintzy.
When I was in highschool 2007-2011 the cool vehicles driven by choice were either pickup trucks (mostly 90’s, Chevy, very beatery, with tacky country mods) or Honda Civics (same, but with tacky urban mods). 1 kid who was a car guy who made decent money had a recent for the time Hyundai Sonata with a twin turbo kit on the V6. Another guy I know had a 80’s IROC-Z with the 350 and 5 speed, that was one of those popular guys with the smoking hot girlfriend who would still be cool talk cars with you. Most of the people with boring 4 door sedans either inherited them or bought them for cheap. I drove my mom’s 2002 Taurus wagon with the boat anchor Vulcan V6, it was reliable and better than taking the bus.
The answer to your question is Pentastar Avenger.
I always had the hots for a Mitsubishi Galant Sigma circa ’88-89. Way cool steering column control pod, 80’s angular styling, Citroen-esque single spoke steering wheel.
A friends father owned a Sigma an (89 I think) – the only one I ever experienced. That steering wheel column and its side attached controls were right off the the flight deck of the starship enterprise.
I always liked the midsize Rambler/AMC Rebel models from 1967-1971. Used to own one that was pretty well optioned out with 343 V8, automatic trans, power windows, air conditioning, and disc brakes. It was a real nice driver. (In a hard rain though I remember really wishing it had been equipped with the optional electric windshield wipers.)
Style-wise of course, in a mid-sizer it’s hard to beat the 1968-1972 Chevelle/Malibu. Just a beautiful car, particularly in coupe form, whether it has a miserly six or a monster 396 V8 under the hood.
Ahh the memories….
The 1st gen Altima was not top speed limited. It was drag limited. Which meant I could draft up on roundel 318 or 325 on the autobahn and pass them. The looks were priceless. The Altima distinctly did NOT look like anything else on the german roadways back then. It was also surprisingly comfortable at triple digit speeds.
The brakes on the other hand….. really should not have been top speed testing that little Altima like that….. but I did it anyways.
I’m not going to rate it as the most desirable, but I feel like the Ford Contour never got the respect it deserved.
I got a new 1999 model loaded with most options and the V6 for $13,900. Just an incredible handling car with plenty of power. The big flaw with it was the back seat, the Mustang was probably roomier.
Otherwise though a great car.
I actually went in the dealership expecting to get an Escort (I just wanted basic transportation) and found the Contour to basically be the same price except it was 10x the car.
Forgot about that one. A most excellent car. My choice too.
It seems the consensus is that the 90s were the decade for desirable mid-sizers at least in terms of recent cars. Having graduated in 2003, I had lots of exposure to my friend’s first cars and they were mostly mid-sizers. I agree with the mid 90s Camry being the most desirable. I have one friend who had a ’95 Camry LE in that purplish-brown color that was called Silver-Taupe. He actually still drives and he and I have taken it on multiple road trips from New York to Texas and back and DC to the Bay Area. The last road trip was in 2012 and that car is still super solid. You can definitely tell it wasn’t built to a price. His parents bought in brand new in 1995 and it was passed down to his sisters and then to him. I actually saw it a couple months ago and still is in good condition and has been terribly reliable. I think it only has like 150k miles on it.
I had another friend that had a ’94 Accord EX Coupe in that dark green with beige leather that was popular at the time. It definitely seemed sportier than my friend’s Camry but didn’t seem nearly as plush. Another friend had a ’99 Grand Am Coupe with the V6…nothing really needs to be said about that car. I had a ’98 Maxima SE in Sterling Mist with Black leather interior with every option except ABS and Heated Seats. An elderly couple traded it in for a Quest in 2001 and it had about 20000 miles on it and was in perfect condition. My parents sold it when I went to college…I still miss that car. Another friend had a ’98 Camry American Edition and the difference between the ’95 and the ’98 were night and day…you could really see the de-contenting.
For awhile, my grandparents were leasing Mazda 626s, they had both a ’97 and an ’00…as far as I could tell the only redeeming feature of that car was the “Swing” button for the oscillating vents. In reference to the Contour mentioned above, my mom had a ’95 Mystique that was purchased around the same time my friend’s purchased the ’95 Camry…I knew that they weren’t totally comparable in price and size but the Camry definitely seemed like a better value for the money.
As a kid I really wanted a ’57 Chevy, big old Detroit steel. I didn’t care much for the jellybean cars of the 90s. I recall enjoying a ride in a 91 Crown Vic as well.
Looking back it’s a toss up between a Pontiac Bonneville and a Volvo 945 turbo. Former still looks good and uses a sturdy timing CHAIN engine, the latter is pretty reliable if crappy in the inside.
I’m not in love with the idea of an old Camcord, the Camry was fine if plain, old Accord don’t age well.
All older cars need work so you might as well go for something interesting.
“a ’57 Chevy, big old Detroit steel”
Tri-Fives actually look kind of tiny nowadays, almost Euro.
They do, the low yesteryear stance doesnt help compared to todays high ridin’ CUV things.
I love ’55s most best!
I dont have a preference, they’re all neat to me!
And they just keep looking better and better as new stuff becomes nothing but fat aero blobs.
I can’t believe no one has mentioned and I forgot about (I owned one):
2006-2007 Honda Accord Sedan with the SIX SPEED MANUAL AND J30 V6.
THAT is the best modern midsize that ever was.
I agree with you the Fusion is a very, very nice looking car indeed.
When I first came to the US my neighbor had a then new 2003 Silver Impala, and I thought that was a great looking car too.
I vote for the 1997 – 2000 V6 Camry with manual transmission and the TRD supercharger kit.
In an eerily similar HS setting to mine (really eerie actually) The then new 1995 Acura Legend Coupe GS (the one I remember fondly was in the ubiquitous of the period dark “Hunter Green” color with light beige leather seats (actually even a leather lined roof) with the Type 2 engine was the car that all the girls really were into and all the guys wanted.
If I recall correctly, that was the last year of that car. It was really an absolutely wonderful car. The 3.2 TL & the REALLY bizarre offering of the 5 cylinder 2.5 TL) were introduced along with the RL. Three cars absolutely nobody was asking for not desired.
Of course, the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Explorer craze was really starting to gain major ground.
Looking back one car I really loved was a friends Volvo 850(r?) which was amazing.
There were also quite a few Ford Probes around the lot as well. And of course an absolute sea of VWs and es300’s in the HS lot.
I really enjoyed that era of cars a lot now that I’m giving it more thought then I have in years. Good times, good times.
Christ, I remember my friend’s parents buying him a used gen 1 (Nedcar built Mitsu-based) Volvo S40 for $11k and that seeming absolutely opulent. My other friend’s mom bought him a really clean ’98 ZJ Grand Cherokee in Laredo trim with the 4.0L and Selec-trac transfer case for $5k with 115k miles, I was really jealous about that one. One kid’s parents bought him a brand new B6 Passat and that was probably the most expensive car in the lot (this was in 2004-2007). Mostly it was old Volvos (240s, 740s, and fwd successors), smattering of old Civics/Accords and various Toyota sedans, GM J-cars and Corsicas and such. Hand me down Caravans, rusty pickup trucks. I had a (borrowed) ’90 Civic Wagon from my parents that was more or less “my” car in exchange for total upkeep and maintenance.
By Decade:
1957 Chevy BelAir Fuelie
1965 Chevy Malibu SS396
1970 Chevy Malibu SS454
1979 BMW 528i (e12)
1989 BMW M5 (e34)
1999 BMW M5 (e39)
2003 BMW M5 (e39)
2016 Chevy SS (f10)
All of which are mid-size cars (except the current SS which is full size by any definition), but none of which are “midsizers”
For me the most desirable car was Audi 80. Japanese cars felt like a crap after driving Audi 80 or Scorpio for that matter. I was also fan of Ford Scorpio but it was too big to be practical, had RWD and not tax friendly with DOHC V6 (I4 was a piece of junk). Another desirable car for me was Ford Taurus, I was and still is fan of Taurus, but I never drove one back then, I just liked design and futuristic nature of the car. It was exotic though and pretty expensive to even consider and also had AT and tax unfriendly V6. It turned out that Taurus was the car everybody and notably Camry tried to imitate but engines and AXOD were letdown. So Audi 80 it was.
My vote goes to the B5 Passat, 2002.5-2005,. I bought a 2003 GLS, manual trans for about $25,000. It had a luxurious feeling interior with heated leater(ette) seats, gorgeous red and blue lighted instruments. The 1.8T engine was faster than most but got better MPG. It was compact but roomy. I never got to find out about long term reliability though, somebody crashed it in 2008.
I haven’t driven enough of them to judge the best. I can only judge looks.
For me the 03-06 (before they ruined the rear end). Legacy is by far the best looking midsize car ever, and one of my favourite designs, even though I’ve never driven one. Always been a dream car, and one of the only models I can think of that I prefer the sedan to the wagon. Other ones I’ve always found good looking are the Suzuki Kizashi, the 5th gen Accord, the last generation Kia Optima, and the 96-06 Galant.
The current Malibu is at the top of the list for ugliest ever, along with the last Malibu, 08-12 Accord, 09-14 Legacy and 01-04 Sonata.
03-06 straddles two generations (at least in the US). I assume you’re thinking of the ’05-’09 gen (taillight change in ’08?). I’m very love hate with Subaru myself. I love the form factor/utility and the good visibility. I like the manual transmissions and excellent AWD systems on said manual cars. I like the ground clearance and robust suspensions. What I don’t care for are the noisy rattly interiors and some of the reliability “baggage” that comes with them. Recently got to drive an ’09 Forester with a stick shift and really liked how it drove, the interior room, the engine response and gearing. But… the reason I got to drive it was because my brother’s friend was bringing it back to further investigate a water intrusion issue that he was dealing with where his floorboards were just pooling water. To be fair it’s a recently purchased used car of unknown providence, I was looking it over top to bottom for signs of accident repair but it looks clean. This 97k mile unit also needed 3 of 4 wheel bearings replaced and the head gaskets are already leaking slightly (external oil leak, not critical yet). Also fairly recently his farmer neighbor with an ’06 Outback that he’s already done the headgaskets came in with a CEL (it’s had a few now). It was a fairly cheap and easy fix (a purge solenoid and a new gas cap) but just typifies the sort of issues a middle aged Subaru deals with.
99-03 Galants are fantastic looking, too bad we only got some very decontented versions with beam rear axles and plebian boring motors and FWD only. There were some really hot variants overseas (VR4) with twin turbo engines, AWD trickery from the Evos, etc.
Always amusing the differences between New England and the Midwest. I went to a likely VERY similar upper-middle class high school, ’83-’87. The student parking lot looked like a Swedish used car lot. The official car was the hand-me-down Volvo wagon or Saab. With a smattering of American plywood pleasure palace wagons. Lots of VWs. I was one of the few kids with a Japanese car, a hand-me-down ’82 Subaru. It was New England, NOBODY got a new car – it was hand-me-down or whatever you bought yourself used. Even the richest girl in school, dad was president of LL Bean, drove a used Ford Escort.
As for what I lusted for – well certainly nothing mid-sized and boring. A Volvo, Saab, or VW. My next two cars were both Jettas, an ’85 2dr sedan then an ’84 GLI in college, the Subaru having succumbed to tinworm as they all did.
Haven’t yet taken the time to read any other comments yet. My #1 mid-size sedan ever is the E39 BMW 5 series. One of Car and Drivers 10 Best. Recommended by Consumer Reports. A close friend bought one for his wife. Rode in it a number of times and really, really liked it. They still own it though hasn’t been driven for awhile. A bit more car than I could afford, but it always looked like just the perfect mid-size sedan.
OK, from my personal experience, my 1999 Dodge Stratus sedan. A base model with the 2.0L and 5-speed manual. Solid, supremely dependable and reliable. Adequate interior and great trunk space. Great visibility compared to most cars today. Since most miles were to work and back, averaged 38 mpg! An outstanding car that I owned 14 years and put over 220K miles on. Did I mention that it was actually more fun to drive than most vehicles as a result of the manual transmission? It was kinda like a slightly larger 1st generation Neon, same engine and transmission, and did great in curves and the twisties. Overall great ride and handling. Had an above average factory stereo. And, had an aftermarket sunroof added at the dealership before purchase.
Cloud cars are really kind of underappreciated IMO, and that 2.0L+5spd powertrain definitely sounds like a safe bet. My friend in high school had a really beat up Plymouth Breeze (auto, 2.4 I’m guessing), and even in its dilapidated state I could appreciate just how stable handling and roomy that chassis was. They did screw the pooch on some pretty basic stuff like battery access as I recall. Most of them unfortunately lead very hard lives with 2nd-3rd-4th owners so I think part of their reputation may be somewhat unfairly foisted upon them by the BHPH crowd running the poor survivors into the ground.
As far as the E39 goes “recommended by Consumer Guides” boy I bet they regret that one! Strictly from a reliability point of view.
I can’t get past Will Ferrell shouting on SNL ‘I drive a Dodge Stratus’ to prove he is worthy of respect. That was the nail in the coffin for the cloud cars.
I liked Status also, it was a great car as ell as LH cars.
The 90-93 Accord set the benchmark. It’s also the second vehicle to go over one million miles. Thee first was a Volvo.
Back in the 90s the Accord was the Mercedes of the middle class…and that’s not a bad thing.
I would love to have one as a beater car. Here in AZ, they don’t rust. Unfortunately, people find other was to neglect their cars.
Not to mention you see a lot of them going with 250,000 + miles. The engine in the 90-93 was also in the 94-97, plus higher trims had Vtec. It’s not too uncommon to find a 94-97 with 350,000 +, or 500,000 + miles. The 2.3 in the 98-2002 was also very reliable. As long as you replaced the timing belt. I have seen plenty with over 300,000 miles.
Is the Infiniti G20 considered a midsizer? I remember driving one of the early ones in stick and walking away thinking it was a pretty cool little car. Peppy, decently fun to drive for a city cruiser, and what seemed like great build quality.
The G20 was better than any car mentioned in this group, as i have owned or driven Camry’s and Accords. Was planning on buying a 92 Accord at one time but it felt like a tin can so i went with a G20. That little car had an amazing amount of room inside, considering that it was smallish from outside. And then there is the SR20DE, tourque and good fuel mileage to boot.
Define “better.”
They were neat little cars no doubt, but not really “midsize” IMO. Then again neither was that 1st gen Altima. SR20 was nice with the stick shift, but nothing special with the auto. 2nd gen cars are sluggish from increased weight and (I think) auto only variants while nothing was done to the SR20 to compensate. Prolific rusters as well. My understanding is that they were priced quite highly as well, for what little you got. To be honest I’ve never actually driven one so there’s that.
I MIGHT be giving away my age, but in high school, I didn’t want the 1966 Pontiac GTO, I wanted the near identical 4-door LeMans, available with the 326 V8 and floor mounted 4-speed between buckets, and lower insurance premiums. I ended up getting my older sister’s hand-me-down 1963 Rambler, whose best attribute was that it was free.
First Get Taurus SHO
I can’t pick just one…
1986 Ford Taurus – I was still riding my GreenMachine, and just starting to learn/care about cars. This thing looked so futuristic. Our neighbor had one with the digital dash and climate control. Holy crap, it was like a spaceship in comparison to everything else.
1986 Honda Accord – It was like, pop-up headlights… on a SEDAN!? Whaaaaaat? ’86 was a good year for mainstream sedans. Seemed like they only came in three colors… silver, beige or forest green.
1989-1993 Honda Accord – Suddenly the Accord became more Germanic and vault-like. Every part felt like it could last forever. No one looked dumb driving this car, or had to explain why they bought it. Every Accord has gone downhill since this one.
2002 Third Gen Nissan Altima – Arrived at a time when midsized cars were about as interesting as Wonderbread. For a couple years, this was the car to have if you lived on a cul-de-sac. Then Nissan decided to go for volume sales, and targeted the Altima toward sub-prime buyers. Back in ’02 and ’03, it was a game changer.
Current Fusion – Especially now that it can be had with a 6-cyl and AWD. This is by far the most seductive mainstream midsized car on the market today. I would even take it over the Mazda 6
I know folks have been giving the 92-96 Camry a lot of love — and it’s well deserved – but I also want to note that the 97-01 Camry and ES300 are both excellent mid-sizers. Yes, they were not as earth-shaking compared to their predecessors, but they had a level of refinement and quality that still put them well ahead of the competition. I bought a 2000 ES300 a couple of years ago and have been impressed with the level of engineering and quality for an almost 17 year old vehicle. There were issues with oil sludge in the V6 of that era, but that was comparatively minor vs. other models that had that problem – the problem rates were quite low. Simple controls, plenty of power – even here in snow country, I see a lot of Camrys and ES 300s from this era still on the road – even more than comparable Accords. I do think the general decline in quality for Toyota took hold with the 2002-05 model – dowdy styling and meh interior quality. Subsequent models looked better, but the overall quality was never the same.
Agreed, Steve. Always thought that generation of Camry looked like a pretty good car. And, likewise, still see many of those on the road daily.
In a similar age bracket (Class of ’98) I recall that Jetta III and Honda Civics had already become “girl cars” (especially in red!), and if you were driving a Camry or Taurus you clearly were driving your parents’ car. That said the first truly desirable mid-size car for me during that era was definitely the first-gen Oldsmobile Aurora. It just looked so cutting edge and “modern” to my barely-of-driving-age eyes. True, the Aurora may only now be considered mid-size but it was definitely my first 4 door love. Disqualifying a “near” luxury car, the 1999 Passat was really the mid-size I still feel desirous of today (again going back to 1990s mid-size standards). I was so crazy about it I made my dad test drive one before he eventually settled on an Accord in 2000. The VW salesman left us with the ridiculous claim that the Passat was comparable to a BMW 5 series or a Mercedes E Class. But perhaps the idea that salespeople actually felt comfortable making such outlandish claims at the time says something.
Perhaps.
I had that Altima (the 1994 model). It was before Nissan’s cost-cutting measures really took effect and was ridiculously well finished inside and out. Mine was a 5 speed GXE, and it was an amazing car. I was super proud of it driving it across the country to law school at Pepperdine, until I drove it by all the Ferraris and Porsches on the undergraduate campus and realized just how fancy Malibu was. It had 7 trouble-free (and single-clutch) years, taking me to DC and then to SF, where it met a very premature end at 89K miles by someone who ran a red light. I drove it to the body shop, where they totaled it out. Every car since I’ve checked to see if Nissan has made anything as close to as nice as that car, and I haven’t found it yet.
The only midsize “regular car” I can remember being desirable at all in HS was the Pontiac G6, and then, only as a coupe.
A guy I know has a Pontiac G6 3.5, I drove it once and remember thinking this is a way better car than I would have expected.
Funny the guy above me mentioned the G6 too…
I have (2) co-workers who both own G6s. Have neither ridden in nor driven one to be able to evaluate it. They have always looked pretty good. And, then GM had to go and shut down the “We build excitement” Division.
’70 GTO!
Gonna date myself a bit, and I’ll have a caveat afterwards but:
1987 Dodge Lancer ES Turbo
1991 Nissan Maxima
1994 Dodge Intrepid
1995 Ford Contour SVT
Thing is, I know the Lancer was a bag of crap. My dad had a string of company cars (replaced every 2-3 years, depending on the lease deal the company had set up. They gave him a choice of three, generally, all domestics) in the eigbties and nineties. And they were forbidden fruit for me – I wasn’t allowed to drive them, because the company insurance didn’t cover anyone under 18.
Well, that’s what he told me. In hindsight, I’m not certain that was entirely true, and may have been an excuse to keep me out of the company cars.
Eventually, though, I could drive them.
The one that got away was the ’87 Lancer. And it was a K-car hatchback, with a turbo, no cooling for the turbo, and no timer. And they blew up like clockwork at about 70k miles/110km (his car, specifically, went back to the dealership, and his bosses’ kid bought it, and it blew up almost exactly at 110,000km) I never got to drive that one, I was fifteen when he had it. But that turbo push was… that was the first time I realized that a Lambo, or Ferrari got you noticed, but there was real, affordable, useful power for the plebs who couldn’t afford such pedigreed iron.
The Intrepid was a seriously good long distance cruiser, in the first gen. Chrysler did something very right with it. I don’t mind the second gen, but the first was incredibly distinctive, had great power, and would eat miles. It was interesting, even if it would prove to be unreliable in the long term.
The early 90’s maxima was a car I argued for years (with my dad) would become a future classic. Here we are, 25 years later, and I can’t say it’s actually happened, to be honest. But I always loved the lines of that car, and the smooth power of it. I only rode in one once, but it cemented a lot of the idea of what a sport sedan should be in my head.
Finally, a buddy had an SVT Contour with some very mild mods when I was in university in the late 90’s (well, all of the 90’s, and part of the early 2000’s, if I make admission). And for its time, that car was an absolute monster.
You know, I’d also give a nod to the 1988 Mazda 626 GT turbo as well – one of my buddies had one in high school, and one of my friends now has one that he’s building up for kicks. With the same drivetrain as my little brother’s ’91 MX6 GT Turbo, that car was fast… if you could get past the ridiculous gearing (for the time) and monstrous torque steer.