A reader from the UK sent me a nice email not too long ago, asking whether I’d consider forming a Question of the Day around a totally unfamiliar term: “Dork Age.” I’d never heard of such a thing before (providing more evidence that Steph ain’t with it), but a helpful link told me everything I needed to know.
Most commonly applied to a brief — and awkward — period in the life of a long-running TV series or musical group, Dork Age is a close cousin to the more popular term “Jumping the Shark.” The latter term, as we all know, refers to that painful moment when a popular series or band (or whatever) signals its unstoppable downhill slide with a moment of cringe-inducing awfulness. The audience throws rotten fruit at the screen (or stage).
Dork Age is a little different. It doesn’t signal the same final descent into crapdom as Jumping the Shark. Rather, it’s a strange little interlude in the broader story arc of a TV show, movie series, or band that most fans would prefer to forget. A period where the creative minds decided that adding something uber trendy would jazz up an operation in danger of growing stale. Of course, the impact of this decision only serves to turn off longstanding fans.
Car companies can do it, too.
First, a Dork Age primer. An episode of The Simpsons illustrates the concept perfectly. In order to bolster ratings, Bart and Lisa’s favorite show adds Poochie to the cast — a totally rad surfer dog character who’s too cool for school and tells kids to, “Always recycle, to the extreme.” Poochie, who arrives with his own rap song, lasts one episode before being killed off.
Another example is The Rolling Stone’s 1967 album Their Satanic Majesties Request, which was Mick and the boys’ ill-fated foray into psychedelia. It was The Summer of Love, after all, and this mind-expanding, tripped-out sitar shit was all the rage, man. Like acid, everyone was doing it. Problem was, some were doing it better than others. The album arrived with a thud.
Within the automotive realm, the reader suggested Mitsubishi finds itself in an awkward Dork Age right now. Having abandoned its longstanding commitment to sedans and lower-end sports cars, leaving just the itty-bitty Mirage as its only traditional passenger car (once dealers finally cast off remaining Lancers), Mitsu’s hopes now depend on two aging crossovers and a new one — the unfortunately named and questionably styled Eclipse Cross — as its saviours.
It’s a weird lineup but, given Mitsu’s new Nissan-Renault parents, it surely won’t be its last. The company now has the cash (and access to platforms) it so desperately craves, meaning this likely isn’t a Jump the Shark moment heralding the brand’s descent into oblivion.
Now it’s your turn, Best and Brightest. Knowing the definition of a Dork Age, think back to other examples. What long-running automakers fell victim to trendy but short-lived fads that only served to water down the brand’s heritage and turn off its fan base?
[Image: Mitsubishi Motors]
For the Big Three:
GM: 1980’s when they downsized everything and everything looked the same
Chrysler: 1980’s-1992…. AKA the K-Car does everything. And since Daimler’s stealing of Chrysler’s money and talent, it’s a new Dork Age.
Ford: no true total “Dork age”, but basically from the 1980’s on they have been teetering on it. I think they are starting their entry now into the their dork age with their crappy interfaces, “sudo-lux” cars based on cheap FWD cars, cars are mostly badge engineered copies of each other (Can you tell the difference between the Continental and MKZ from the front?) Most of their cars styling are based off companies they no longer own (Explorer-Land Rover, 90% Fords – Austin Martin, etc)
Ford has had several Dork Ages, from 1969-1979, 1990-2006 (passenger cars)
Now that I think about it, Ford always has been kind of dorky since the 50s but in the lovable sense.
Ford’s Dork Age was the mid to late 70s (bleeding into the 80s) when it all got awkward.
Mustang II – check
Still building things on the Falcon Platform – check
Granda/Zepher/Monarch – check
They didn’t really get out of it until the Taurus came along.
I would dispute your badge-engineering claim on Ford because they’ve mostly quit doing that. When the MKX and Edge shared a bodyshell…those were badge-engineered. There wasn’t much difference between them other than the badge and the front and rear fascias. The Milan and the Fusion or the Grand Marquis and the Crown Victoria are more-egregious examples.
But sharing platforms and general dimensions across multiple brands isn’t badge engineering.
The rest of it, though, is true, especially the fact that Ford seems to have conveniently cribbed the design languages from its former Premier Automotive Group brands—why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? I’d add that Lincoln’s new front fascia now looks conveniently like that of post-2008 Jaguar.
BMW during the initial Christopher Bangle styling days (maybe 2002-2006)? Specifically the E65 7-series, E60 5-series, and the E63 6-series. Obnoxiously styled, they were meant to attract new money buyers to the brand and drive away the long-term loyalists. Also note this corresponds to the time when BMW excessively “softened up” their cars to appeal to non-sport oriented customers. A lot of the odd design elements have been rolled back since Bangle’s departure, but some remain.
You’re being way too kind. To call that generation “dorky” would be to imply success. As far as I’m concerned, that was the death of BMW.
I agree, I don’t think they’ve ever recovered from that. Sure they still make tons of money, but it’ll end one day.
I’d have to say smart fortwo. It began life here in the dork age and is still in it.
If I had to compare other OEMs to say, the second Indiana Jones movie, well, I suppose I’d have to agree with Polishdon in saying GM in the 1980s.
Saabarus.
Packardbakers.
AMC/Renault Products (Alliance/Encore).
Jaguar S Type.
Generally most products when one auto company is being absorbed/amalgamated by another. As per the Mitsu and Chrysler/Daimler examples.
I’m in with the AMC/Renault vehicles. They were dorky, and bad.
You’re fired, Corey.
Our Alliance will never end!
(Really though, those cars were -interesting-, just not good. Think of the Encore, the Premier!)
KRAMER: “What did you want to see me about, Mr. Leland?”
LELAND: “Kramer, I’ve been reviewing your work and quite frankly, it stinks.”
KRAMER: “Well, uh, I’ll work harder. Nights, weekends, whatever it takes.”
LELAND: “No, no, I don’t think that’s going to do it. These reports you handed in, it’s almost as if you have no business training at all. I don’t know what this is supposed to be.”
KRAMER: “Well, I’m eh, trying to get ahead.”
LELAND: “I’m sorry, there’s just no way that we can keep you on.”
KRAMER: “But I don’t even really work here.”
LELAND: “That’s what makes this so difficult.”
ha
Ford from around 1971 to 1983. With the exception of the innately-dorky Maverick, Pinto, and Mustang II, FoMoCo cars became increasingly blocky, ugly, and piggish. Who really likes such cynical wonders as the Mark IV, LTD II, Torino, Marquis Brougham, and Cougar station wagons? The Fox and Panther cars beginning in ’78-’79 were small steps in the right direction but were dragged down by boat-anchor 3.3-liter sixes and 4.2-liter V8s. Finally, Ford began to get interesting again with the 5.0 Mustang GT and aero Thunderbirds. It got better from there.
Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder but you sir have crossed the line.
The Mark IV, the Thunderbird, the LTD, the Gran Torino Elite and yes even the Gatsby edition Granada were the most stylistically era appropriate vehicles of the early to mid 70’s.
Nothing said ‘brougham’ like these beauties from Ford.
That only shows just how bad the era was. We don’t call it “malaise” for nothing.
Due to increased regulations and technical limitations of the time, the D3 focused on ‘style’ over engineering.
And the style was as unique and as divisive as anything designed by Virgil Exner.
For the period/era the Ford styling was exemplary in reflecting consumer tastes.
Many of us still long for PLCs, and the chrome, opera windows, coach lights, pop up headlamps, 60/40 front seating and pillowed velour interiors with matching dashboards of that era.
Hyundai/Kia during the XG350/Amanti era a few years ago. “Hey, we’re a serious carmaker, but not serious enough to make our semi-competitive cars look like more than a bad Chinese knockoffs.”
The Azera still carried the torch for several more years after that.
This same fate thing of affected Suzuki with the Kizashi, as well.
But I’ve always liked “Their Satanic Majesties Request”, and still listen to it regularly.
Of course the album didn’t have a chance. The Beatles came out with “Sergeant Pepper”, and the Rolling Stones were, of course, expected to at least match, if not top, it. And they tried. Talk about a hopeless situation.
I will have to check that album out. It sounds like something Spinal Tap would have released.
The Rolling Stones were always in the Beatles’ shadow. Except for a few of their early songs – which I don’t even listen to anymore, I never liked the Stones.
Two completely different styles of music, though both Rock & Roll. The Stones were blues based, the Beatles based more in British popular music.
The Beatles were better singers, but as far as playing goes, the Stones were a better band, with one of the best rhythm sections ever. Ringo was a great drummer but McCartney is at best a passable bass player. Charlie Watts is always in the pocket, Wyman worked with him very well and was rock steady, and Keith Richards is one of the best rhythm guitarists ever.
You nailed it!
Tastes in music become personal or subjective, of course, but I couldn’t have detailed the differences between the two bands better.
And the Stones are still at it……
What about as song writers?
And George Harrisons’ guitar work?
Charlie was of course a superb musician, perhaps because of his jazz experience?
And it can be argued that both bands were influenced by American blues musicians, the Beatles in particular by ‘skiffle’. Although Paul was as you mentioned very much a ‘music hall’ fan.
McCartney is at best a passable bass player
This is one of the wrongest things I’ve ever read on the internet. Paul’s bass-playing was ground-breaking, brilliantly, effortlessly melodic without ever being showing or losing the actual rhythm.
On the OP, if Saturn had been allowed to survive, you could point to the Ion and Vue as the Dork Age, transitioning from the original vision to being essentially an Opel importer with the Aura and Sky, which were both fine cars with (at the time) personalities quite distict. from other GM products.
guess i’m a dork: satanic majesties is my favourite stones album ….
Nissan in the late 90s to early 00s. Across the board things ranged from bad to worse. Sentra was a shell of its former self, with that beam rear suspension. Altima was near the bottom of the pack with that half-a-size-too-small problem. Maxima had a great engine and interior, but the chassis was a cruel joke. Z? Dead. 240SX? Dead. And Infiniti was at its lowest point in the brand’s history. At the time I was too young to really see it, but in retrospect, especially with the brands’ huge revival in 2002-2003, it’s tough to look back on.
“Maxima had a great engine and interior”
Engine yes, but interior? The interior in my ’00 SE was perfectly mediocre, with the same easy-peel rubberized coating on many touch points as the Germans used at the time. It looked like crap by the time I took possession. Still a lot of typically-Japanese good quality push-buttons and a decenty amount of soft vinyl padding on door cards and such, but in many places the cost cutting had crept in hardcore by that point. A Camry/Solara of that same era had a MUCH better looking/feeling interior, more so as the miles piled on.
I think 96-99 were better for interior quality. The I30 for 2000 did not hold up as well inside as the 96-99 versions.
Agreed Corey. If I were to pick up another cheap Maxima (a real possibility), I’d definitely get a ’95-’99 car, with an absolute focus on getting a rust-free example having learned my lesson. Lousiville’s craigslist has decent examples pop up fairly regularly, most of the ones in Indy are pretty rotten by now.
Rapid Chevrolet rust is forcing my Tahoe sale in a month or so!
Nooooo
I just coached my friend through the purchase of a ’02 4Runner SR5 in NYC, it’s at my brother’s now getting a good looking over for needed repairs and neglected maintenance (a new t-belt, some exhaust work, and some suspension freshening at a minimum). The biggest focus in the 4Runner hunt was a structurally sound frame. He had seen some that had already been patched, and one in CT that had a good sized hole on an inner frame rail. He ended up doing pretty well I think, ’02 with 128k miles negotiated down to $3k. A lot of surface rust underneath, but the frame seems structurally sound, the body itself is quite good with no visible rust, with only the front bumper corners starting to go (I’m going to hunt him down a clean front bumper down here from a junkyard).
Honestly, between how frustrating this 4Runner shopping was, and my crusty-undersides Ranger, next time I buy an older used vehicle, I will insist on traveling significantly south/west (a fly and drive perhaps) to get a totally clean car. It was unreal to see older trucks and such in Vegas this weekend that are all in heavy stages of rusting here in the Midwest (jellybean F150s, GMT400/800 pickups, etc).
It’s funny, previous cars I’ve had little bits of rust on, on occasion. None of it had really moved during my ownership of 2-3 years for each car. In this case however, there is noticeable rust degeneration after just ONE calendar year.
Ah that’s how it goes. There does seem to be a point at which it really ‘takes off.’ Perhaps prompted by the rather mild winter we had this year with higher temperatures and more salty brine as a result.
Fluid Film treatment I find does a good job of creeping into existing scaly surface rust and significantly slowing the process.
I will keep that in mind for my next one. I think like you said, Louisville is a good idea. Just a couple hours’ drive, but significantly less salty.
Edit: Or Lexington, though that’s a smaller market.
Definitely. I’d say the combination of a solid minimally rusty used vehicle from a warmer climate with a ample dousing in Fluid Film ($60 for a six pack of tall aerosol cans on Amazon) and you should be set for a long time as far as rust goes.
You all have me instantly shopping RX models, as usual.
https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/2006-lexus-rx330-suv-loaded/6266630272.html
This one’s up here, but clean – don’t often see them with factory rear DVD.
“Vegas this weekend”
Some Like It Hot.
Conversations like this on TTAC have made me eternally grateful that I don’t live in the rust belt. I think I’d just lease base manual-trans VWs if I did.
We have a modest amount of road salt here, and the only modern vehicle that comes to mind with any incidence of visible cancer are Dakotas and pre-2012 Durangos. They’re worse than Mazdas.
Corey that RX looks like a solid choice, yes the steering rack is a weak spot on gen 2 RXs. They’re asking a lot, but it’s likely a “no surprises” kind of car. At that price, there is a good bit of room for negotiation, given that more oblivious buyers will automatically go for the cheaper trashed examples and this guy will probably get far less interest. I can’t emphasize enough how nice and relaxing these things are to drive.
Yeah, he would have to come down a bit. I’m liking the detail about that rack replacement, and the fact that the seat’s clean. It’s only about 20 minutes from me, I think it’s worth a check out.
He -should- have the timing belt replacement receipt as well.
Rust isn’t a huge thing around here (but it does exist), and I’ve started seeing more GMT800s with rotten sills in the last few years. Probably another example of GM’s post-’92 cost-cutting and supplier-beggaring.
Yep, right along the rear of the running boards, where the water runs whenever it’s wet and moving.
I think its worth a look Corey.
bumpy it does indeed seem to be the case that the GMT800 trucks rust worse/quicker than the GMT400s. The rockers are always at least partially gone on the GMT800 pickup trucks, but most GMT400s seem unaffected. GMT400s get it bad around cab corners and above the rear wheel arches. There is a definite air of cost-cutting about the 800s vs the 400s in general IMO.
Not a Maxima, but definitely better than anything else you’d find locally for the price:
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/cto/d/mazda-vip-jdm-1991-sentia-929/6265216958.html
That Sentia bumpy posted….
goo.gl/images/6h4jks
I’m excited to see where these RHD imports end up in the states. If it truly becomes a fairly hassle-free way for me to get my hands on some clean Japanese stuff from my favorite era, consider my interest piqued. At $4700 what is basically a super-loaded and rare Mazda 929 sounds awesome. Although having dealt with exorbitant OEM part prices for older Mazdas sold in the US, I’m scared to think of what something like a set of control arms for this 929 might cost, let alone JDM-specific bits that might need hunting down online.
I would not choose last RWD Mazda sedan as my JDM starting place. I’ll just say that right now. Dark times at the company, where sales and parts were not plentiful.
@Corey
I suspect you’ll running into what I recently ran into with a real estate offer: idiocy. You see in my case, this particular property was in a very desirable area had been on the market for seven months being located on a main road but primarily ten ugly looking wall anchors in an unfinished basement. After coming down 40K from the original price, these already rich people with a free paid off house the estate pays taxes on won’t move off of 170K. In my estimation, the property as-is was in the 120-130K range, or perhaps a bit more. I explained these wall anchors were like a title brand and they forever decreased the nominal value 20-25%. The sitting seven month in a hot real estate market seemed to confirm my hypothesis. After walking, I heard from my agent another buyer was involved who would not move up from 165K, and these people would not move from 170K. Now, reasonable people, with free tarnished property and no mortgage which sat for seven months, either take 165K or compromise at 167,5 etc. But no, alas this was apparently not the case last I heard.
How does this relate to you in this case? This Lex is probably owned by the same type of fool. Ok but its real clean and I put an expensive part in it: 10,5. Ah but my dear sir, with rare exception the market is taking 6, and I can almost guarantee you they have already visited the dealer and told 6ish or less on trade (those exceptions being under 100K otc of course). So you’ll go out there, and maybe its average (generally “clean” ends after 100K otc like “extra clean ends” after 20K otc). But what will happen? Idiocy rears its head. I won’t come off ten, I won’t ever take 6,5, this has X feature, I did X to it, this is the 6000SUX edition blahblahblah. The fail is strong force to resist for sellers.
My advice is because this is a desirable model of a desirable brand, realistic pricing will be difficult, and therefore you need to find the best example for your money. Thus I would abandon all local searches and check out examples in GA, TN, NC/SC, and FL. if you’re going to be out 30-40% more of what the example is actually worth, make it an example with no undercarriage rust or rot for the same money.
8/17/2017 $6,400 123,026 2.7 6G Automatic White Regular Southwest Dallas-Fort Worth Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/15/2017 $4,800 166,705 2.8 6G Automatic Silver Regular West Coast Nevada Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/11/2017 $8,300 80,909 3.7 6G Automatic Gold Regular Southeast Fort Lauderdale Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/10/2017 $4,200 125,803 1.9 6G Automatic Gold Lease Southeast Tampa Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/10/2017 $5,700 142,279 2.7 6G Automatic Gold Regular West Coast Phoenix Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/9/2017 $5,700 209,256 1.7 6G Automatic White Regular West Coast California Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/8/2017 $4,000 163,881 2.6 6G Automatic Black Regular West Coast Riverside Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
8/2/2017 $6,900 108,681 1.8 6G Automatic Silver Regular West Coast California Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
7/28/2017 $10,700 94,697 4.4 6G Automatic White Regular Southeast Fort Lauderdale No 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
7/26/2017 $5,400 146,899 3.5 6G Automatic Silver Regular Southeast Central Florida Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
7/26/2017 $8,800 74,179 2.7 6G Automatic Silver Regular West Coast California Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
7/26/2017 $3,500 176,357 2.7 6G Automatic Black Regular West Coast San Diego Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
7/25/2017 $4,300 190,425 2.2 6G Automatic Silver Regular Southeast Birmingham Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
7/25/2017 $5,500 173,329 6G Automatic Black Regular Southeast Atlanta Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 FWD 4D SUV 8/22/2017 US
Historical Avg:
Past 30 Days
$5,850
139,359 mi
6 Months Ago
$5,850
147,188 mi
Last Year
$6,375
145,382 mi
Projected Avg:
Next Month
$5,725
He’s priced it at KBB value, plus $400, thinking he will get $10 out of it. Waiting to hear back if the belt has been done, have to see it in the CarFax, which he has.
Problem with the examples you cite is they’re all FWD, which isn’t what I want. Big price difference in the AWD ones.
Says he has his 3rd car already, child on the way in January. Has owned since Feb this year.
“He’s priced it at KBB value, plus $400, thinking he will get $10 out of it”
KBB is some of my favorite fiction, yet the proles eat it up.
Either this guy is slick and just fishing for fools and expects/takes less, or he’s an idiot and wants all the money there is for it (my money is on the latter).
8-8,5 and it would have been gone with AWD, but he’s prob priced it too high for Craigslist.
Behold:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Lexus-RX-Base-AWD-4dr-SUV-/131933959584?epid=109915159&hash=item1eb7e075a0:g:p2AAAOSwA3dYMKWl&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Lexus-RX-AWD-PREMIUM-/142469258082?hash=item212bd45b62:g:DZQAAOSwTVtZa5I4&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Lexus-RX-THUNDERCLOUD-EDITION-1-OWNER-NAVI-BACKUP-/112436230315?epid=74033222&hash=item1a2db8b8ab:g:e2AAAOSwJAtZOczd&vxp=mtr
“Big price difference in the AWD ones.”
Not so, its a like a roof or a leather package (add 10-15% from the base model). Just add 1,000-1,5 above 100Kish otc (clean lower mile ones are doing 60% more though apparently).
Sorted by lowest mileage:
MY06 Lex RX330 AWD
8/7/2017 $10,221 62,529 6CY Automatic Gold Regular Northeast New York Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/19/2017 $11,499 62,540 3.7 6G Automatic Gold Regular Northeast Pennsylvania No 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/8/2017 $8,000 84,791 3.1 6G Automatic Silver Regular Midwest Arena Illinois Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/1/2017 $8,000 99,797 3.7 6G Automatic Gray Regular Northeast Baltimore-Washington Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/14/2017 $7,500 106,323 6G Automatic Green Regular Southeast Statesville Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/16/2017 $8,100 106,748 2.5 6G Automatic Gold Lease Midwest Kansas City Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/3/2017 $7,900 110,962 6G Automatic Gray Regular Southeast St Pete Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/9/2017 $8,600 122,059 2.9 6G Automatic Silver Regular West Coast Seattle Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/4/2017 $6,900 126,844 6G Gray Regular Northeast Pennsylvania Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
7/30/2017 $7,500 127,023 4.5 6G Automatic Blue Lease Midwest Cincinnati Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/15/2017 $6,400 128,265 6G Automatic Blue Regular Southeast Pensacola Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/1/2017 $7,400 131,608 6G Automatic Blue Regular Midwest Arena Illinois Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/11/2017 $6,800 132,812 3.5 6G Automatic Blue Regular Northeast Pennsylvania Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/1/2017 $6,200 138,010 3.5 6G Automatic White Regular Northeast Baltimore-Washington Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/9/2017 $7,300 139,653 2.3 6G Automatic Gold Regular Midwest Milwaukee Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/3/2017 $6,500 141,443 6G Automatic White Regular Midwest Chicago Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/15/2017 $4,400 161,745 1.9 6G Automatic Black Regular Northeast NY Metro Skyline Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
7/25/2017 $4,700 165,201 6G Automatic Black Regular Northeast NY Metro Skyline Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/8/2017 $5,600 192,228 6G Automatic Silver Regular Northeast NY Metro Skyline Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
7/25/2017 $4,000 196,425 6G Automatic Blue Regular Midwest Ohio Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/1/2017 $7,700 199,331 6G White Regular Northeast Baltimore-Washington No 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
8/1/2017 $4,500 217,332 6G Automatic White Regular Midwest St Louis Yes 2006 LEXUS RX 330 AWD 4D SUV
While the Monroney prices are appealing, they don’t apply directly to purchases from consumers. Yes the KBB is a fiction, but it’s the fiction everyone accepts. When I go to sell my Tahoe, I’m going to get KBB money for it, not Monroney money.
He is over priced, but selling it for $8 would be giving away free money, which is provided by KBB.
That’s just how used cars with people work. I’ll look further into that one with the scuffed bumper. The dealer for the Nightcloud Edition one is sketchy.
“While the Monroney prices are appealing, they don’t apply directly to purchases from consumers.”
Blasphemy.
(Also, its Manheim not Monroney).
“When I go to sell my Tahoe, I’m going to get KBB money for it, not Monroney money.”
Simple function of supply and demand. If you have something no one wants, odds are you will not be getting the fiction funny money. Ross Perot said, a good deal sells itself and a Tahoe LS2? V8 4×4 sells to at least a few crowds out-the-gate. Price and perhaps inspection/condition would be your major sticky points.
“He is over priced, but selling it for $8 would be giving away free money, which is provided by KBB.”
But he didn’t sell it did he? He’s looking for a sucker or at least someone to make him an offer so he can come down to whatever he thinks its worth. Neither seems to have occurred, thus it sits (and will sit). In the end you either want to make a sale or you don’t.
“That’s just how used cars with people work.”
No this is how morons operate.
“Price discovery refers to the act of determining the proper price of a security, commodity, or good or service by studying market supply and demand and other factors associated with transactions.”
http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/economics/price-discovery-3069
So in simpler terms a thing is worth X based on supply and demand, and everyone everywhere wants X plus margin when selling. If someone paid more than X because they are not in touch with the market, and subsequently has no room to negotiate, whose the fool? Hell E-bay for fraks sake is at least somewhere to start for the proles, just save auctions to favs and see what things sold for then create a spreadsheet with as much data as can be had to look for aggregates. Think, McFlys of the world! Think.
I have been seeing a lot of this dumb in RE. Sellers paid too much in 2013, then put the ask at 25K more than they paid in 2017, and I come along like WTF. So because you paid too much, its just OK to kick that can to the next bagholder to get buried in? Quote the ODB: N*gga please.
Classic example of the following:
Because only one thing counts in this life: Get them to sign on the line which is dotted!
“Has owned since Feb this year.”
I missed this earlier, so now I’m going to label this guy a jag off. Why? So evidently we haven’t even owned it but 6 1/2 months but we want what? Meaning other than the stated repair, this guy hasn’t done jack and cannot attest to the life the car has had – yet we want *all the money* there is for it? So either this winner paid out the rear for it and is trying to recoup, or is trying to flip it. Frak this guy, frakking idiot now on his third gift to humanity. Planning, so whats that? Guess you need a graduate degree to know what a condom is these days? Idiocracy was a documentary, not a work of fiction.
I wonder if we can put human behavior into some kind of index so I can short it?
“While the Monroney prices are appealing, they don’t apply directly to purchases from consumers. ”
I agree fully with Corey. 28 cars these prices you pull up are indeed quite instructive as far as getting a feel for what lots are paying wholesale so if you’re buying at such an establishment you have an idea of what sort of margin they have. But comparing that to craigslist prices of private sellers? Not so relevant IMO.
I’ve long since disregarded KBB as well, it is truly ‘what the market will bear.’ When I go to sell a car on CL, I look around at the range of prices for my make and model and year range. Selling my Maxima for example, the 00-03 cars ranged from $750 for totally trashed beaters needing serious work, to $1500-2000 for BHPH beat up runners, to private sellers in the $2000-3500 range depending on mileage and condition (amount of rust). I honed in on $2350 for my car with a few outstanding issues (exhaust leak near y-pipe, CEL for said exhaust leak and a marginal ignition coil that still worked fine, some interior wear and seat soiling), I had fixed most of the rust and polished it up into a nice “10 footer.” Tire gel, new floor mats, black ice air freshener. Got my asking price in a few weeks’ time, never so much as looked at KBB or anything else.
I usually do the eBay thing scanning prices that Gtem mentions as well. And yes Manheim – these M words are so difficult to remember.
Looking at the out of town auctions though, say I find one for $8800.
Plus $250 dealer fee.
Plus $400+ transport/pickup.
Then I’ve got a car I haven’t seen in person first, for a grand total savings of $200.
The eBay discount needs to be larger if I’m going that way.
“Plus $250 dealer fee.”
Unless you’re buying from the original buyer or buying from trade, you’re paying the auction fee or in this case the Ebay fee.
“Plus $400+ transport/pickup.
Then I’ve got a car I haven’t seen in person first, for a grand total savings of $200.
The eBay discount needs to be larger if I’m going that way.”
Given how Ohio/PA are in the winter, $400 in transport or travel to pick up is well worth it if you intend to keep the vehicle. Whatever you buy well used around here will net you $400 in body work at some point.
I see your overall point but as previously stated these costs are already built in to most of what you will buy. If it were me, I would be heading south and looking for an example with far less miles for a little bit more for a cash purchase. This is much easier for the kind of junk I usually buy than something desirable, but say 10K cash money in NC for something clean may be more difficult for the locals to come up with and gives you some leverage. Just a thought.
All good points! I’ve done eBay purchases as well, couple times before (A8 and M). Have not been disappointed either time.
Corey that RX has the insanely rare Mark Levinson Sound/ DVD option. The ML sound has that little speaker on the dash above Nav screen. Mine just has Nav. I also noticed the woodgrain in that one is severely faded (especially on the steering wheel), as the wood used to be darker than that. The wood is still nice and dark in my 07, and I use a sunshade to keep it that way. I still think you should look at some RX 350s as the extra power is nice.
Ah ha. Did not know that, but thanks! Somebody ponied up at the original dealer.
The wheel fade doesn’t bother me a lot (surprisingly). My 01 GS had the wood wheel which was still very dark when I sold it at age 12.
If I could find a 350 with decent miles and a fair price I’d hop on it.
Not sure what your upper limit is Corey, but here’s some decent looking RX350s:
These listings are quite curious: seems to be the same house, sometimes you can see another RX in the background. A RX rebuilder/flipper?
cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/2007-lexus-rx350-awd-110k/6263134418.html
cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/2007-lexus-rx350-awd-with/6263129126.html
cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/2008-lexus-rx350-awd/6246750588.html
Pricier but perhaps more honest:
https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/2008-lexus-rx350/6235565539.html
I’ve seen that guy’s listings before. Very suspect to me, and it does seem he’s a flipper. I actually looked at that black one earlier today. And while it looks nice, I don’t want black for an outside parked car. That’s about the only color that doesn’t work for me.
I can spend $10-11.
Here’s an Indy listing that is extremely promising. It’s in Geist, a wealthy Northwest suburb for the well-to-do. No mileage listed. Let me know, I could take a closer look at it for you.
indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/d/2006-lexus-rx330-one-owner/6265292459.html
Wow. Almost suspicious with how clean it is, the low price, and the tire shine. I’m going to see how many miles it has. I’m going to guess over 160k.
Take a real close look at the shade of silver on the front bumper from different angles in different photos, a definite respray, but not necessarily reason to dismiss the car entirely. Just reason to carefully inspect under the hood to see the potential severity of the accident(?) Or could just be scrapes and paint chips being addressed.
Hmm, I see that now. No reply to text yet.
The silver one in Indy has 170k on the clock.
“Literally like new.”
gtemnykh and Corey That RX in Indianapolis is identical to mine except for the black interior (mine is light grey). I keep mine that clean, I even put tire shine on the tires occasionally. The only thing with mine is the headlights are looking pretty bad. I got a 3M headlight restoration kit for it last night, and tonight I am going to try it out, fingers crossed! I also bought a new bulb for the shifter plate backlight, should be pretty simple and straightforward. The instructions are on Club Lexus. I see now that Indianapolis listing has been deleted already
Now that’s even more suspicious. I know he still has it, as he JUST told me he did.
At 170k though, I’m not interested.
—
Local one, guy is going to find out if the t-belt has been done, as he isn’t sure.
“Nissan in the late 90s to early 00s.”
I respectfully disagree. Nissans from that era were perfectly fine; just short of their Toyota/Honda competitors, and less expensive to make up for it. You can even make a case that the Maxima was a great car during that period. Today’s Nissans are FAR sadder… barf-tastic interiors only suitable for the road thanks to the legions of Uber drivers unqualified to do anything else for $10/hour. I’m only slightly exaggerating. I would take a late 90s Altima or Maxima over the current iteration any day.
Late 90s to early 00s did however suck for Infiniti, the exception being the first gen G35.
I will agree with this. The onset of orange backlighting, weird interior shapes/designs with crappy plastics, CVTs, they really lost the plot for me. I’ll take my old Maxima back with easy-peel rubber coating thank you very much!
Orange lights. GAH. So bad.
@gtemnykh: your frustration with 4Runner shopping mirrors the issue with running older vehicles in Southern Ontario.
Our governments use salt like it is free. And we have constant freeze/thaw cycles making it warm enough for the salt to seep into seams and start its deadly work.
Then factor in that our used car supply is much smaller than in the USA, so pricing for good used vehicles is much higher.
And regular government required safety inspections have become quite stringent.
Therefore it is fairly rare to see an ‘old’ car on the road as either a daily driver or even a winter beater, particularly when compared to the south-west and mid-west U.S. In Ontario, we even ‘import’ older vehicles from Alberta as they usually have less rust problems than those which have spent their entire life in Southern Ontario.
Thus my ‘fixation’ on the cost of new versus old on a per km basis.
Yeah, that was the brush-with-bankruptcy era that drove them into the arms of Renault. Ghosn saved Nissan but had to kill Prince to do it.
I think Nissan had an earlier dork age in the ’70s. The styling was ugly baroque, the proportions were misshapen, and performance was gone.
I think THE GM offering that best fits is the Pontiac Fiero. It was a great idea, IN THEORY, but they saddled it with a woeful engine (Iron Duke), tried to correct it with a nice V6, but never quite got it right until 1988, when they also killed it off.
It wasn’t the straw that broke the camel’s back (that would probably be the Aztek) but it certainly was one of the standout straws that contributed to some severe spine curvature.
“Their Satanic Majesties Request”
I have an original copy, with the fresnel lens on the cover, and a hole punched in the corner of the album cover, because I bought it as a “cutout”, i.e. distressed merchandise. The fact that a Rolling Stones album ended up as a cutout shows how the album didn’t sell well, but Citadel, She’s A Rainbow, and 2000 Light Years from Home are decent songs.
“There’s a lot of rubbish on Satanic Majesties. Just too much time on our hands, too many drugs, no producer to tell us, “Enough already, thank you very much, now can we just get on with this song?” Anyone let loose in the studio will produce stuff like that. There was simply too much hanging around. It’s like believing everything you do is great and not having any editing.” – Mick Jagger
The hole in the cover represents that it was a ‘delete’ print meaning that it was pressed/stamped using a master that was at or near the end of its useful life and therefore the album that you purchased could have less sound quality, a shorter useful life or more than the usual amount of particles/contaminants in the vinyl.
It was common for record stores to purchase these and sell them at a greatly reduced price.
I had an original pressing of Satanic Majesties with the 3D cover, that was played only once. Gave it along with my collection of just under 1,500 albums to an in-law in the late 90’s when you had trouble doing anything with vinyl.
I think Radiohead’s Kid A and Amnesiac follow this as well. A few decent songs, but mostly garbage filler and general dorkiness passing as artiness.
Honda is just starting to emerge from its Dork Age. Everything they introduced from about 2007 to 2012 was best forgotten. Fortunately the latest batch of products are showing real promise.
You could take the beginning back even further to 2001. That’s when the 7th generation Civic was released with its decontenting and MacPherson struts. Then there was the British-built Civic Si that was slower than the older cars. Not to mention failing automatic transmissions.
The lack of double wishbones, disappearance of the Integra then the appearance of the CR-Z bookends the Honda Dork Age perfectly I think.
all of this.
When Honda decided that their Fast and Furious secondary market fanboys were ruining their ‘moms & grandmas’ primary market, and they made the intentional decision to make the Civic suck by turning it into a Corolla, they took a huge step into the Dork Age. Killing the Prelude and Integra didn’t help the idea that they had lost their way. Bringing in the euro-weenie EP3 Civic Si to make amends only cemented their Dork. The 03-07 Accord was a styling dud, and the Crosstour never made any sense. Finally, the CRZ came along and managed to irritate every remaining fanboy by failing in every comparison to the 88-91 CRX.
They seem to be trying to regain their following, but making the brand new Civic Si look like a 5 year old Subaru STi isn’t helping.
Honda really needs to start a factory restoration program for the 88-91 Civic and CRX Si like Nissan did for the 240Z and Mazda is doing for the NA Miata. Or, hell, just start making the parts again and we’ll rebuild their heritage for them.
Most folks credit the ’06 Civic as being a real leap forward for compact cars at the time, in design/content/performance, the return of a “real” Si model with a 200hp screamer of a motor. I personally am somewhat ambivalent I guess, I kind of like the refreshed ’04-’05 Civics more just based on looks and ergonomics than the “spaceship” ’06 redesign. The ’08 Accord was a definite miss in my mind, fat and cheap.
Having ridden in a new ’17 Civic sedan, I was frankly appalled at the seat material and quality of assembly. The fabric felt like the $40 amazon neoprene seat covers I bought for Lyft duty, with uneven stitching and bunched up corners that were frankly worse than even those seat covers. The dash plastics and panel gaps seemed pretty awful too, honestly worse than my ’12 that the automotive press skewered. the new car rides really nice and is more refined than a Civic has ever been, but I could not live with that interior.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought the new Civic’s interior was disappointing. Looked good in the magazine photos, but when helping load a child seat into my in-law’s I had plenty of time to interact with the unpleasant seat material and rock hard door panels. It’s no better than the hated Corolla in there. Between that and the awkward exterior styling and panel gaps, I think I’d rather have a Mazda3–like the Golf it feels like a step above.
I hate current seat fabrics, almost universally. Bring back that nice velour and mouse fur!
“I hate current seat fabrics, almost universally. Bring back that nice velour and mouse fur!”
Yep. My favorite feature of the long in-tooth W-body Impalas is that they shamed many much more modern cars with crappy scratchy cloth. Subaru does a good job in the Outback, just about as good as hey-day 90s Japanese stuff. I was actually sad that my ’96 ES300 had the common leather interior rather than the rarer base cloth trim.
Almost anything non-truck from early 2000’s to recession from GM (there are some gems).
Ford in the late 70’s to early 80’s.
Buick in the 50’s.
Chrysler in the early 50’s.
Everything Japan in the 70’s.
Lamborghini through most of the 70s and 80s, there was the Countach, and not much else. The Jarama, Urraco, Silhouette, Jalpa and Islero are barely remembered, and the LM002 and Espada are just cult classics that won’t ever attain million dollar values (well maybe the LM002 in some parts of the world, with sand and falconry).
Also Isuzu in the 80s when they tried to sell cars in North America.
Also the vast majority of Ssangyong’s existence.
Not a particular automaker but a type of vehicle – we are witnessing the depths of the midsize sedan’s dorky period.
Early 90’s GM. Weird styling (e.g. Lumina/TransSport, Achieva, Skylark, Caprice), W-body updates that ruined an originally nice design, that odd-colored coarse, scratchy paint meant to hide imperfections; interiors with all the aesthetic charm of gym lockers — even on their trucks.
Bob Lutz’s book gave some insight on how these dumb design ideas made it into production in GM’s corporate culture. A poor design would be tested poorly with a focus group, but it would be pushed through with one or two of the glaring design flaws “fixed”, or with the insistence that the design was ahead of its time and by release time it would be accepted.