Think of the automotive landscape as a high school yearbook. Within those pages, you’ll find more than a few charismatic, brainy jocks and vivacious prom queens eager to earn a science degree — you know, the characters destined for continued greatness. Then there’s the rest.
There’s the ones you forget about instantly, only to read about in the automotive obituaries years later. “Who knew that was still around?” you think to yourself. “No wonder it’s dead.”
Then there’s the more visible ones that, despite possessing many positive traits, never gain sales traction. Many other segment standouts go a little too wild, design-wise, fall victim to corporate dysfunction, or can’t trade on a household name.
But we’re not here today to discuss sales duds. No, today we’re looking at the wallflower who becomes “all that.” The unassuming pupil who makes it big. The stealthy sales stud, at least in your own estimation.
What model gets noticed by scores of buyers, just never yourself?
Obviously, the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord has no place in such a discussion. Sporting model names known even by members of uncontacted Amazonian tribes, good content-for-the-money, solid construction, and more-than-adequate performance, it’s no wonder the Camry and Accord are gobbling up ever greater market share in the shrinking midsize segment. You might not lust after neither sedan, but the continued popularity of Camry and Accord should come as no surprise to anyone.
For this writer, it’s not even a contest. The model with head-scratching sales performance is a vehicle that defies easy categorization. It is the Kia Soul.
Front-wheel-drive-only and relatively unchanged since its inception, this almost-crossover was the 30th best-selling U.S. vehicle in 2016. Some 145,768 buyers took one home last year, with only 2015 topping last year’s sales tally (and only by a small margin). None of this is to say the Soul doesn’t deserve its relative popularity, not at all. Recent steering concerns aside, it’s a reputable vehicle and a compelling buy.
The Soul’s styling is just funky enough to stand out, but not so polarizing that it turns off swaths of buyers. It’s right-sized for countless consumers. If concerns existed about power, Kia put them to rest with the addition of a turbocharged variant.
And yet it’s a model I never think of. I’ve never known a Soul owner, never been offered a ride in one, and never seem to park next to one. Kia offers enough vibrant colors to make spotting one easy, but they may as well be ghosts to me. Memories of the milk counter in middle school occupy more space in this brain than the Kia Soul, and nothing bad ever happened at that milk counter.
So, that’s my pick; you may have something else in mind. What model’s sales prowess makes you stop and think?
[Images: Honda, Kia Motors]
Nissan Altima
I second that nomination. But really the only reason people buy altimas is because they’re cheap and want a japanese brand. A lot of them also go to fleet. The altima has become the old school taurus of fleet cars.
Yep, I get why its popular, being cheap and carrying a Japanese nameplate, but there are better cars in the segment, so it does surprise me that it gets chosen so often.
I see a lot of them sold to subprime customers. I also see a lot of people that just want a car. For the latter, I suspect the conversation goes like this.
Salesperson: “Hi, welcome to Insert Name Here Nissan.”
Customer: “Do you sell car here?”
Salesperson: “Car? Yeah, we sell that here. Here’s some.” [Points to a row of Altima 2.5S units]
Customer: “I’ll take some car.”
In my dreams, this is how every H1B visa holder in my town ended up driving a Versa.
the mercedes “a class” car and crossover.
pieces of junk.
don’t deserve a second look.
give me a honda or toyota over those – or a hyundai or kia.
almost any nissan.
when thinking of former performance / sport cars, the bmw 3 series are fading. who looks at them
now ? I still have a 335, but i wouldn’t give them a second look now.
mike
Very much this – a depressing vehicle with awful seats. If the 3.5 was the volume model, I might get it, but if you’re buying something kind of hateful, it seems like it should be a hard sell over the Sentra (also huge for the price, but cheaper).
I’ve had plenty of these as rentals and for all of the hate they take from the holier-than-thou enthusiast, they’re really not terrible. Lots of space, good reliability, and very cheap. They are priced more in line with Civics rather than Accords.
By no means a perfext vehicle, but as simple basic transportation, a good value.
I think you might be exaggerating the holier-than-thou enthusiast element when the starter of this thread is open about his love for the Ford Taurus. Most Nissans I’ve been in start feeling a little dire and worn out inside after about 3 years, the engines are sort of rough and unpleasant, and I can’t reiterate how uncomfortable I find their seats. I’m not looking for a corner carver, just something that’s not a penalty box.
For what it’s worth (I can’t speak to actual transaction prices), in my area, new Sonatas and Optimas on AutoTrader have similar asking prices. Cost being equal, I can’t think of a reason to pick the Nissan over the Hyundai/Kia (and I don’t particularly like Korean cars).
The Altima is my least favorite car in its category. Not even close. My gripe is how the car is “sold out” to chase fuel mileage. It gets good mileage, but that’s about its only redeeming virtue. CVTs don’t HAVE to be bad, but this one is. That coarse 2.5 running at 1200 rpm is just not pleasant. Unfortunately, that engine is also unpleasant when you ask it to rev even a little. Bad vibes!
I’d rather have an Altima than a Camry. But I would rather have herpes than either one.
Hah, Nissan anything. Around the DC area all driven by community leaders. Yes, including the GTR….umps..umps..umps..umps….
Whenever I see someone who has a new Altima, I want to ask, “Did you test drive anything else? I mean ANYTHING else, because if you did, I can’t imagine you bought an Altima.” The Altima is like driving a marshmallow; it is the modern day Buick.
I think most Altima purchases have to involve some kind of coercion. The keys to the trade in get “lost,” the customer gets tackled walking out the door, salesmen ganging up on customers, prices and interest rates dropping until the buyer’s number is hit, something.
Remember the days when Nissan was seen as the “poor man’s BMW”?
Poor man part is still valid. Mondeo was called FDW BMW in the past, not sure how you can compare any model year Altima with BMW.
I actually drive an Altima and it’s fine. Granted I only drive 5K miles a year and it was basically free, but it runs fine,the AC works, I can park and leave it anywhere, it’s invisible in traffic, and I don’t spend a penny on maintenance. I only change the oil when my bi-annual smog check comes up. It’s so fine I can’t justify a new car to fill it’s niche, though I am thinking about a Transit Connect.
“The Altima is like driving a marshmallow; it is the modern day Buick.”
Nissan has been tuning their cars softer since tying up with the French, something I personally rather appreciate. Not a demerit at all IMO, considering the roads that these low-credit steeds get driven on day in and day out. I was vividly reminded of this fact just now when I drove down to the Autozone in the hood to rent a tool. My old 4Runner on 75 sidewall snow tires gobbles up the horrible pavement, it’s not a place I’d want a “sporty” ride or low profile tires.
Hamster wagons (Kia Soul, in case you didn’t know).
Very uncomfortable for me when I drove one a few years ago. Useful, perhaps, but not for me.
As soon as I read the headline, my immediate thought was “Kia Soul”, so I was pleased to click past the jump and be presented with a photo of one.
I was shopping for a vehicle in this segment a couple years ago and I passed over the Soul for a second-gen Scion xB. The xB was cheaper, roomier, and used a proven engine from an older Camry model. It was an easy choice.
The only things the Soul had going for it were slightly better looks and three trim levels from which to choose (versus one for the xB because Scion).
I even found the hideous Nissan Cube preferable to the Soul. The Soul just wasn’t doing it for me. Yet somehow it won the Battle of the Boxy Compacts.
I have to wonder if the Soul won because it hit the Chicks-Who-Want-Something-Cute-And-Quirky segment. Whenever I see a Soul on the road these days, more often than not it’s being driven by a woman. Same women who drive Mini Coopers and Nissan Jukes… Women who don’t want to be stuck driving vanilla Accords and Camrys and Corollas and Civics. (I don’t blame ’em!)
Eh, the current Soul is better than the xB.
Better ride, better interior, better sheetmetal (as the “box-utes” go) and the Soul with the turbo mill is kinda fun.
The last Soul I was in (a new ’15 rental), rode and handled quite poorly IMO. The proportions of a short wheelbase and tall vehicle made it bounce and rock back and forth a lot over expansion joints. The ride was harsh while not yielding particularly sharp handling. I wouldn’t be surprised if they retuned it though, I’ve been impressed with my other Hyundai/Kia rentals in the last 2 years.
Well, if you were disappointed with the ride/handling of the Soul, would be more disappointed with the ride/handling of the Corolla (there have been comparison tests where the Soul was deemed better in that regard).
So maybe the question should be – why is the Corolla so popular?
Answer – cheap, large rear passenger compartment and Toyota’s reputation for reliability (the Civic is so much better, but one is going to have to a pay a premium over the Corolla).
Anything by Nissan.
That was my initial post, but I decided to narrow it down to the worst offender.
*tied with Rogue as worst offender lol.
Honestly the Rogue is a fairly competent entrant in the CUV field, although is definitely a generation behind now that the new gen CRV is out. Compared to a Rav4, comfort/interior/dynamics are very much on par. The Toyota’s engine is quieter and smoother, the Rogue has a better interior layout and more comfortable seats.
Even the Altima, for the flack it gets, is by no means Mitsubishi Galant/Lancer tier outdated. As others have mentioned, you get the room and comfort and larger 4cyl engine of a midsizer at the real world price of a Corolla. And frankly, Altimas are screwed together pretty decently. They get very good real world mpg to boot thanks to that CVT.
Having said all of that, Nissans would be at the bottom of my car shopping list. But for credit challenged folks, they are truly good cars.
I went along on back-to-back test drives of the Nissan Rogue and the Ford Escape. The Rogue just looks and feels cheap compared to the Escape. Haven’t been in the current Altima, but the previous one wasn’t horrible. I rejected it because I could afford better cars in the segment.
I knew a guy who had an R35 GT-R, U.S. spec, bright red. His DD was a tuned Sentra, rear beam suspension left in place. Talk about a real enthusiast.
We rented an Altima once for a road trip to Nevada. My wife hated it so much that she fell asleep driving it, took out a couple of edge markers, and it was only because I was awake enough to grab the wheel that it didn’t go into the creek. It was in eastern Oregon, and no one else ever saw it happen.
I didn’t hate the car that much, but I didn’t love it either.
Is a milk counter required because your milk is in bags? We keep ours in cartons, and can use a fridge.
YOU PEOPLE.
LOL!
Easy to keep a bag of Milk in the fridge. Ya just lean it against the “Two Four” of Labatts. : )
Is two-four like eight cans?
Or is that two-four meaning six pack?
2-4 as in twenty four. Come on up here and I’ll explain over a double/double and an Ah Caramel.
All these fun terms! I can go to Tim’s, but it’s about a half hour away.
Absolutely the Honda Ridgeline.
In what universe is the Ridgeline popular?
3,000 Ridgeline sales a month….100 every single day….
I’m surprised by that level of popularity given the competition…absolutely inexplicable sales prowess…
They are singularly great for what they are. By far the best driving truck on the market. Tackles snowwy roads like a Subaru. And rides better (back to back, per me, on beat up, windy roads where the yahoos put speed bumps in the middle of 15% inclines) than a $150K Range Rover.
The in bed trunk, and two-way tailgate, is genius for those who use their truck as a DD most of the time, as it gives the truck a traditional, lockable, out of sight, trunk. While still retaining a truck bed for larger and/or dirtier objects.
The bed is too short for hauling street bikes, for sleeping in, and even for hauling the longest skis diagonally, so it certainly has limitations when used as a truck. And there is no frame to mount a crane to. At least none available so far. And it doesn’t tow like a fullsize. Nor match their fuel range when they are equipped with their largest tanks: F150/2.7/10 speed/36 gallons, is sweet for those impromptu runs from Cali to the arctic…..
But although crew/short halftons are all the rage these days, I personally would skip them. For either a Ridgeline, or a Crew/Long 2500 (Ram, with a manual). The latter which can carry most bikes, and most other stuff common in the US, with the gate closed; as well as comfortably tow almost anything I could think of hooking up to the rear of a pickup; and be equipped with 50+ gallon underbody tanks; if I wanted more of a truckety-truck. I do admit I’d be hard pressed to pick the Ridge over a stow-and-go minivan for a DD, but as long as we’re sticking to trucks, and for uses where AWD and/or an open, infinite cargo height, bed is a non-negotiable….
Seriously? The RAM 2500 with a manual comes only with the de-tuned Cummins diesel, by far the most undomesticated of the pickup truck diesels. I guess if you’re a closet semi-driver wannabe, it’s the ticket (if you can find one).
Having test driven all of these a couple of years ago in search of a tow vehicle for my Airstream, I can say that the ride difference between any of the “2500” trucks and even my half ton with the max payload package, is substantial. And the extra 1,000 pounds or more of vehicle weight makes itself known in all kinds of mostly unpleasant ways, even if the exterior dimensions are closer than you would expect.
But by now, even the most “undomesticated” of diesels, is still domesticated enough for this be a nonevent. For many “enthusiasts”, I would even wager the additional mechanicalness of the Cummins, would be considered a plus. Besides, long stroke I6s are just plain pleasant in the way they almost shimmer, rather than vibrate.
But in either case, the differences between them, are too small to matter. With the only ones that are not; being the better tracking at speed IFS, and the lower roof height/improved garageability for any given tire size, on the GMs; the bigger aftermarket, particularly for serious industrial gear for the Ford, balanced by an obnoxious, city unfriendly roof height on the new ones; and the nicer riding, better bumper towing but worse 5th wheel towing coil setup, tighter turning radius and, the biggie, manual transmission, on the medium roof height Ram. To me, that equates to the Ram being the pick as an all-use, DD half ton replacement; the GM as a dedicated long haul, high speed tower and low roof champ; and the Ford for more hard core ag/mining/forestry usage with near zero requirements for ever entering a parking structure.
Once you put 10 plys on halftons, I don’t find they ride any better than at least the Ram 2500. With the heavier tires, there is just not enough sprung weight pressing down on the higher unsprung weight of the tires to allow for proper damping. So you get a lot of sharp bouncing around and uncontrolled oscillations. And high frequency vibrations of the bed. Most half tons do come with soft riding SUV tires, which do ride nicer, but are deigned to immediately puncture their sidewalls as soon as you load even a light popup camper in the bed. Don’t even think of a camper plus a bike on a Joehauler, on a trip to the Alaskan Arctic. Which, at least to me, makes zero sense on a full size truck.
Aside from the air suspended Ram 1500, the soft ride on the leaf sprung 1500s come from spending most of their lightly loaded miles, riding on a single, tall leaf in the back; with the rest of the pack coming into play only once loaded down a bit. So they ride annoyingly nose down when light. Or, when bro-leveled, nose up when loaded. The coils on the Ram 2500 doesn’t have this issue, so it stays much flatter over a wider load range. Which, to me, more than makes up for the somewhat heavier and clumsier rear axle on the 3/4 ton.
My neighbour has one of the new ones, which pretends to be a truck a little better than the old one. Seems like a fine vehicle for a family man who likes construction projects around the house.
BMW X6. Which, to me, is proof that if you could find a way to put the BMW brand on dog excrement, it’d sell.
(And yes, I realize I’m being redundant with that last statement.)
I like X6, but it’s too expensive.
The Encore.
Cynical micro CUV exercise is cynical.
Corey, you’re on a roll today. Right from the department of redundancy department. You must work for some government…
At the end of the day, we all work for the government!
1040-U-ME
Kind of like we all have an “Uncle Sam”! At least in the U.S.
Definitely makes my top five head-shakers.
On one level, I get it. It’s a small, optioned-up runabout with AWD. But it’s just unforgivably ugly.
From what I’ve seen it’s a motorized grocery scooter for the road.
Motorized grocery scooter with a nice interior.
Not unappealing for the right customer. But it’s godawful ugly. And it’s not like you can’t make an attractive compact CUV – the HR-V, the CX-3 and the Rogue Sport are all attractive cars. I also like the 500X.
But the Encore is just awful to look at, and it’s ba$tard cousin the Trax is just as bad.
Only because it has no power. None.
Otherwise, it’s a nice little vehicle.
The HR-V surprises me. It just seems like an exercise in Honda charging a premium for a worse-looking, worse-handling vehicle (versus the Fit), and I don’t get why anyone would buy it.
Because the Encore is too nice.
:D
Because Honda subcompact CUV.
I haven’t driven it, but I like its’ looks, and the packaging is amazing (thank you, Fit platform).
HR-V has AWD that Fit does not have. Also, the ground clearance is a little better. The difference in handling is not anything anyone would notice, if it exists at all without modification. And it’s not worse-looking. It has some issues, to be sure. Turning circle is too large, for one. But they are not ones that your drive-by commentary indicated.
Agree – the HR-V is a dump compared to the Civic, Accord, CR-V, etc.
The SRX/XT5 in Cadillac.
The thing makes up 40% of US caddy sales…
And I literally thought they were discontinued 10 years ago. I feel like I rarely see them on the road and would have guessed the CTS outsold them 100 to 1…
A stunning vehicle, where you pay $9,000 for the privilege of AWD.
Head over to GMC.com and try to turn a base 4-cyl Acadia into a V6 AWD model. With all the mandatory extra stuff just to get that mechanical configuration the price jump is fairly breathtaking.
The best GMC exercise is a FWD Terrain Denali.
But now you can get a Terrain Denali Diesel and be big pimpin’.
Well, it helps that right now the XT5 is Cadillac’s only crossover.
And it’s the same formula Lexus has used to great success with the RX – which is why the XT5 is the 3rd best selling luxury model in the US (after the RX and C Class).
I have a feeling that 3/4 of the Souls we see on the road are rental cars.
First generation Acadia, Traverse, and Enclave. They lead their class in nothing except interior room and as they aged they only sold better.
Never underestimate the power of an super butch minivan. ;-)
I think you solved your own riddle. They lead their class with interior room. Plus, they are not too terrible to drive. The Enclave is a pretty nice place to spend ones time. Compared to the Honda Pilot (s) that I have ridden in, I would take a Lambda platform any day for a quiet experience.
I always had a soft spot for the Enclave.
I rented one for a drive from Ohio to Jersey City and while it did not stun one with dynamic excellence, it was a very comfortable cruiser with plenty of space. The Traverse is several clicks below in terms of interior quality and does not at all compete in my opinion.
What I’d love to see in strange dreams is a Buick-badged Suburban. Call it an Electra Estate XL or call it Roadmaster X. I know GMC has that space covered, but I grew up in Buick wagons and always had a bit of a longing for one.
A number of years ago, a vendor was visiting our corporate offices. To make conversation, he indicated that he was looking at an Infiniti SUV. After our meeting, I walked him a block over to one of our Infiniti dealerships. He liked it. I then walked him across the lot to one of our Buick dealerships and showed him a first generation Enclave. He loved it. Thought it was nicer than the Infiniti and a lot less expensive (and more reliable imho). He bought it a few days later.
The first generation Lambda vehicles had a lot going for them. They were ahead of the competition.
“(and more reliable imho)”
I don’t think I’d foist a GM Lambda on anyone with reliability as a priority.
gtem, compared to Nissan, um Infiniti?
#1 Rover Evoque.
Even prior to JB’s review. I 100% do not get this vehicle.
#2: Honda Ridgeline.
A F150 or Silverado does the same thing, only better for the same MPG with better resale value. I think we can dispense with the Honda quality argument at this point. Ford and GM know how to screw together a full size pick up and both have an expected shelf life of 200k miles with minimal issue.
Again the Ridgeline isn’t popular. Also a Ridgeline with similar equipment is cheaper than a Silverado or F150.
Even when it is truck month again and their is 10k on the hood at Ford?
Every month is truck month, because love.
Lexus RX.
God, is that thing ugly.
Agree. But the sales are not surprising, as it can trade on its established good name, from between 1998 and 2015 when it wasn’t hideous.
Well, it’s not as if all those RX owners who are trading in their 1998-2015 models don’t have other choices these days…
Strangely enough, I like the same basic styling theme on the NX. For some reason, it just doesn’t work on the RX. Probably that huge schnozz…
I have a feeling that the current RX is going to put the brakes on one of the best selling ordinary cars. People are now going to add “ugly” to “boring” and “expensive.”
You don’t understand why the Lexus RX is popular? Lets take a look.
-Crossover
-Toyota/Lexus
-Made Well
-Premium Brand
-Good Dealerships
-Reliable
-Holds its Value
-Reasonably Priced
-Model is Well Established and has a Following
This is like saying that you do not understand the popularity of breasts.
hahaha
One of my colleagues (70 year old high school principal Marine Corp Vietnam Vet) just traded his 2nd gen Lexus RX for a brand new one.
He got the “F-Sport” package, it made me chuckle.
True, Adam…
But breasts are attractive. The RX isn’t.
The RX is now Madonna’s pointy cone bra. The boobs are still there, underneath.
LOL, but I hated the Madonna pointy cone bra era!
(Or, as my girlfriend would say…”missile t*ts.”)
Oh, Blonde Ambition– when even Gaultier couldn’t upstage all the prettyboy dancers. What a fun time!
It’s a luxury, midsize (albeit on the smaller side with no 3rd row) CUV priced alongside the compacts like the GLC and X3; same reason why the XT5 has done so well for Cadillac.
Any sub-compact CUV. You want something as tall and small as you can get that has terrible gas mileage and no interior room? I can’t rap my head around it.
Buick Encore.
The success of both the RX and the XT5 continues to surprise me. The RX simply isn’t a very good car, and the styling is atrocious. The XT5 is probably a little better overall, but the interior is a huge letdown. If I were shopping in that category, I’d take the MKX 2.7T over either one.
“The RX simply isn’t a very good car”
Needs quantification.
It’s amazing as long as you’re Ray Charles.
It excels at nothing. It certainly doesn’t handle well. It’s soft but not overly refined. Power is sufficient, but nothing more. The mouse-based infotainment system is possibly the worst interface on the market. And then there’s the styling. If it weren’t for the badge … if people actually purchased the RX on its qualities alone, sales would be a fraction of what they are.
Previous RXs (I have gen 1 and 2 in mind), seemed to hit a Goldilocks combination of high quality interiors, good utility (interior room for passengers and cargo), good poor weather performance, high levels of comfort, superb reliability, and better than average powertrains with good smoothness and power. My folks have an ’09 (last year of 2nd gen). After taking it on a few road trips, I understood what these are all about. They are truly excellent vehicles IMO. My understanding is that gen 3s got cheaper interiors and a stupid high center console. And 4th gens are brutally ugly and introduced turbo 4cyls as the base powertrains.
“the wallflower who becomes “all that.” The unassuming pupil who makes it big”
My first thought was the trio of popular Nissans: Rogue, Altima, Sentra. But Nissan was already mentioned.
So I’ll go regional and posit the Subaru Outback. For years this car has been selling like bonkers in my area and they just don’t do anything for me. The prior ones were crude, slow, thirsty, surprisingly cramped, and haven’t seemed all that reliable. The current generation rectified the passenger space but began as a truly ugly duckling and remained slow with the same dinosaur flat four. It’s not a bad car, but the fervor in which it is bought and regarded surprises me a bit.
Mystifying brand attributes…it’s what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
No, I get the Subaru thing. But the question is not about that. Subaru already has excellent vehicles. If you want a smaller Subaru, you buy Crosstrek. If you want a bigger Subaru, you buy Forester. Why in the world would you buy Outback? It’s a confused car for confused people, it appears. But obviously it has a great appeal in practice, and I expect B&B to figure it out. Maybe it’s the price.
What is there to not get about the Outback? It is noticeably more comfortable and larger than the Forester. They have similar figures for total cargo space, but the Forester’s space is vertical, the Outback is longer/wider. Nicer interior finish and more comfortable seats in the Outback as well, and better NVH control. It’s like going from a compact to midsize class sedan in that regard IMO.
Was a big proponent of Subaru (specifically, the Forester) back in the day when people needed a wagon-SUV like thing (before the days crossovers took off) with AWD.
Now, there are just better options with better powerplants, sheetmetal and interiors.
I’m no fan of the direction Subaru has taken with the Outback but I don’t see any way to describe the last couple generations as “cramped.” The current (and previous) Outback is nothing if not spacious. I also find it boring and underpowered but there’s plenty of room.
I already allowed that the current one is roomy, but I’ve ridden shotgun and backseat in friends’ 2007 and 2002 and found them cramped for vehicles that got 24mpg on the open highway. Not much rear legroom and the front seats had a low seating position. No likee!
Put the Toyota 3.5 + 6spd in the current refreshed Outback and then we’ve got something.
My parents have an Outback and I absolutely hate it with a passion. They are elderly and disabled, so I’m increasingly ferrying them around in it. For their needs, the relationship of floor height, seat height, roof height is all wrong. Ingress and egress is terrible, leaving aside the crappy plastic, unpleasant engine drone, CVT, and bouncy ride on anything but a smooth road. I really want them to ditch it for a CUV or minivan. My pics would be a used Flex, Caravan, or even a Mazda 5. “I advocated for the Mazda5 when they bought the Outback (when they were slightly healthier) , or even a Forester because the more square proportions seemed better, but those were dismissed as “too small”.
Once my parents obtained geriatric status, the minivan was the way to go.
My dad had bad hips and what not. He could slide in and out of the front seat. With the wide opening power sliding doors my mom could put his walker behind the front seat (stow N’ go) with ease. Finally the power lift gate in the back allowed her to put groceries etc with out either major lifting up or bending over when the rear seat was situated in the ‘stow’ position.
For the elderly who still drive, a minivan is the answer almost 100% of the time.
Nothing is an answer 100% of time for 100% of the people. I saw octagenarians so tall that they needed a Wrangler for comfortable ingress/egress.
The Fiat 500X and the Mini Countryman.
These are not really very popular.
Mini Countryman was actually the first thing that popped into my head. They’re all over the place where I live (SF Bay). Such a hideous turd.
Ford F-150 and Silverado/Sierra have historically been comparable in quality and features, typically Ford did the interior and refinement better and GM did better powertrains, but today both have mostly caught up. It’s not clear to me why Ford wins this by a landslide.
For me, it’s because for years (decades?) most every Chevrolet (and perhaps GM as a whole) product I’ve rented/used that has more than a couple of years on it, has at least one light out. In the dashboard, on the door panel switches, a headlight, etc.
It has nothing to do with the vehicle’s ability to function, but it’s something seen….every…..day…..and it’s really annoying.
My first Ford was a 1993 Ranger. I think I replaced the first light (a brake light) after it had it’s 10th birthday and well over 100K miles. It also never failed to start, so there’s that.
My 2013 F150 is still fine after 47000 miles, and everything works 100% of the time.
I don’t think F150 winds in a landslide. F150 wins among the lifestyle buyers and Silverado wins among the people using it for work. In the end it’s nearly a wash.
Around here it’s the exact opposite. F150’s get worked to death and the Silvarados are boulevard cruisers.
The truth is Ford builds a boatload of naked “fleet-special” units for the sake of numbers, which they sell cheap cheap cheap. (In the Ford Fleet programs, you can order and buy trucks that leave aside a lot of the equipment retail consumers consider “essential”)
As a Silverado driver, I can say that the F-150 is the better car, and the Silverado is the better truck. Since most customers don’t actually use them, the Ford wins. Even a UHaul F-150 I rented a few years ago had an excellent ride. I wanted a truck that does work, and will last a long time. The F-150 scared me off with the turbo 6. Dealers didn’t want to deal on the V8. I ended up with the Chevy.
Have to agree. 136k on my 2015 2500hd WT gasser. Haul 3k and tow 6-10k 98% of the time. Solid.
It’s easy to pile on the typical TTAC whipping boys (small CUVs, Nissan, various SUV “coupes”) but I’ll go a more unexpected route.
I’m honestly surprised the F150 Ecoboost engines sell as well as they do. Not that they are bad, but I apparently have greatly overestimated how many “truck guys” demand a V8. Especially now that gas prices are low and fairly steady. I realize that non enthusiasts often don’t care what’s under the hood, but I thought if any buying group was an exception to that, it might be stereotypical pickup owners. Maybe they are all buying F250s?
Remember that a huge volume of pickups are purchased by fleets. Fleet owners just care about total cost of ownership and will probably opt for the 2.7T because its cheaper and uses less fuel.
Also doesn’t Ford have a 25% take rate on the 5.0? It isn’t like they’re selling nothing but Ecoboosts.
I would bet the majority of fleets are driving white XLs with the base V6
I went F150 EB for the power and the MPG. But, I have the patience to stay off the “boost”, and take full advantage of the “eco”. Gas won’t be as cheap as it is at all times.
But, when I want it, the power is there.
I’ll admit some worry about the complexity of the motor, but so far it’s been perfectly fine the first 47K miles.
From my research, it seems that the 3.5 Ecoboost’s only major problem is carbon buildup from the direct injection system, and it’s only really caused by frequent short drive use, where the engine doesn’t get up to temp enough to burn the gunk. It seems like the turbos themselves are fine.
The 3.5L EcoBoost has gobs of useful torque across the rev range, this is unmatched by V-8s. This makes it an excellent engine for towing. Unloaded, it is quick when you want it to be, but will get decent mileage if you stay out of the turbo.
I don’t agree with FryLock in that fleets are what make the EcoBoost a strong seller. Its popularity is mainly in the retail sector.
I haven’t driven the newest version but the original 3.5EB had a diesel-like power delivery where it a freight train down low but dropped off quickly at higher revolutions.
OTOH, the 6.2L goes apesh*t at middle revs and sounds like a modern CobraJet.
If I was hooked up to a trailer all the time I guess I could see the appeal of the EB but otherwise I’d go with the SOHC.
edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2010/long-term-road-test/2010-ford-f-150-raptor-svt-dyno-tested.html
edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2011-ford-f-150-ecoboost-dyno-tested.html
I’m guessing there were many Ford Guys who were skeptical of the Ecoboost too, until they drove it.
Why not get a RAM with a real diesel then? I know a guy who uses it to tow his race car. He says the 8sp auto is “a bit slow-shifting but okay”. He traded an F250 for it.
Then they owned it for a while, and got sceptical again.
For me it’s the Jeep Renegade. The Jeep Compass or Cherokee on the same lot are superior in every conceivable way and look nicer. Yet I see Renegades everywhere.
For me the Cherokee was a bigger vehicle than I wanted and isn’t available with a manual. The Renegade’s shortness (very similar to a Kia Soul) makes it rather tossable and a joy at around-town maneuvering. I’d look at the new Compass, but I bought my Renegade two years ago when the old Compass was still with us.
Agree with the previous comment. Love the combo of 1.4t with manual _and_ the AWD. With the optional 4.438 final drive, the total ratio is 18.435 for U.S. models with C635. It’s not Wrangler Rubicon, but quite respectable.
I wholly detest the Renegade, but love the form factor. 3800lb curb weight for a car based platform that is at best mediocre offroad (better than average for its class, but poor in an overall sense), and unremarkable utility. I’d point to a Diahatsu Terios as doing this sort of spunky cute-ute offroader right. Light weight, simple and effective layout (mechanical fulltime 4wd, solid rear axle).
Wow, if there’s one vehicle I DO get the popularity of, it’s the Wrangler.
Nissan Rogue. This car is a perennial best-seller in a hot market and it’s hard to explain why. It’s clearly not as good as the CR-V but I’d probably rank it behind the Escape, RAV4, CX5, and just about anything else in the class.
Definitely agree. The two times I’ve sat in a current Rogue I was struck by how uncomfortable the front seats were and didn’t see any reason to pick the overall package over the competitors.
Transaction price?
I actually find the Rogue’s interior preferable to something like the Rav4, both in terms of design, and materials, and seat comfort. They are also quite maturely styled and handsome. Finally (and this is probably the biggest factor) is the transaction price and willingness to finance more high risk customers.
Ergonomics are a funny thing, I thought the seat cushions were too short and tilted down a bit too much. For me they lacked thigh support and I felt as if I were slipping toward the footwell. No amount of adjustment made it right for me. I don’t have that issue in a family member’s RAV4 even though those aren’t exactly Volvo thrones either.
The rest of the Rogue interior is ok, but it felt much cheaper than the review photos led me to believe. The real issue for me is that the Nissan just doesn’t do anything the competitors don’t, but it does have the distinct disadvantage of a CVT that confers no acceleration or mpg benefit despite being a very expensive time bomb given its predecessors.
So if someone wants a basic utilitarian CUV, why not just get a RAV4 and retain the rights to long term durability and resale? Or CR-V and CX-5 if you can spring for something a bit nicer?
I know my grandfather in law swapped his leased CRV for a Rogue because the lease deals were the best in town. All other factors were equal enough to him that nothing else really mattered. For what its worth, the Rogues generally are considered to ride softer than many other entrants in the class.
That makes sense. With leasing, transmission failure out of warranty is no longer a concern and if the lease terms are competitive the depreciation isn’t an issue either.
Subaru outback. I get the appeal of an awd wagon but these have done nothing for me yet their owners worship them like jesus. Did these people buy them when it was called the awd legacy wagon? nope. I remember very clearly in 1995 when they gave the poor selling awd legacy wagon more ground clearence, body cladding, a new tv campaign featuring crocidile dundee and called it the outback then literally overnight sales EXPLODED and they were EVERYWHERE.
Subaru- marketing is everything.
In my mind, I understand why the Outback, and all Subarus, are popular. But every time I get in one or drive one (not in the snow), I start agreeing with you.
This is not true.
While sales did grow certainly, the major growth has occurred since Subaru went more mainstream in the last two generations. At that point they were large, reliable, well-priced, decently-contented, handy, and capable vehicles that retain their value exceptionally (and also have a good marketing game).
There’s no mystery here.
My car-ambivalent Camry-driving wife fell in love with a current-generation 2.5i Premium Outback that we test drove. Good visibility, very secure feeling handling, interior feels nicely put together (actual nice cloth!), and it feels like a lot of car for $26-27k. I think a not-insigificant part of the attraction too is just the dealership experience. Our salesman was not pushy at all, very well spoken, knew the product inside and out. The dealership invites people to come in with their dogs, etc. Gotta hand it to them, they’ve got things figured out, even the headgaskets now :p As a bonus, they build them right up the road from me and have spurred a lot of job growth with a ton of suppliers coming into Indiana, steel from Gary. I respect that.
reply to echild- maybe sales did not explode where you are but if you were in the boston area in the 90s you noticed it overnight… outbacks, everywhere.
I blame Subaru for conning average people into thinking they need AWD just to drive in the rain.
If I don’t have a Subaru and it’s raining, my dog WILL DIE.
Don’t you understand!?
Dylan the black lab must be saved!
Rogue. I know I keep harping on it but it really is bad. The interior is as low rent as it gets. It rattles and has since new and the dealer couldn’t fix it. It is not comfortable. It doesn’t have any more usable room than our Avenger. It doesn’t get very good mileage for a 4 pot with a CVT. The best we got was 27 highway on a road trip. It sits around 24 mixed with my wife driving. The blue tooth integration (I use that term loosely) is horrible. The sound system is horrible, as in it sounds like an OEM system from the 70s. In a panel van.
The reason we got it was because it was given to us because when the original owner went to trade it the trade value was very little. I am not sure it is worth the price we paid.
That said I can’t see how any BMW X model sells.
@Flipper: what model year? We have a 2017. Found the interior to be less ‘plasticky’ than the HR-V that I checked out. The seats in the Rogue are among the most comfortable that I have used in many years. Granted my build is different than most from years of competitive lifting and I find most ‘high end’ seats to be far too small across the shoulders. Ditched a 1996 Explorer after 6 months because I could not fit into the driver’s seat with a winter coat on. Also can’t use seats with large hip/thigh bolsters as my legs don’t fit.
As for mileage, we are averaging 30.16 mpg in mixed driving in the Rogue.
Hondas popularity suprises me, I guess people don’t mind faulty airbags? Hiding incident statistics? Ugly styling? They’ll go on and on about Pintos and other safety disasters, then buy an Accord because badge.
Nissan, Subaru, like others they surprise me too given Subarus reputation. Nissan’s the new Pontiac, reliable engine’s in ugly wrapping.
In particular, the Maxima surprises me since it looks and basically is just a premium Altima. Both cars a favorite of Looney driver’s.
You are right about the loony drivers part. I’m always weary when approaching an Altima. They’re probably the most erratic drivers on the road. Camrys and Corollas plod along obliviously, but an Altima might go careening off the guardrail without any warning.
I’m wondering how Honda managed to move all those CVT Accords from the past few years. How could someone test drive it and feel that terrible lurch as they pull out of the dealer lot, and then buy it?
Toyota Tundra, basically unchanged for 10 years, still see a ton of brand new ones around, lagging further and further behind everyone else (even Nissan), and full-size trucks aren’t an area where Toyota’s reputation does much for it.
Nissan Rogue, even compared to the other Nissans, just because the price isn’t that much different than its competition and it’s inferior in just about every way except maybe interior space, but then there’s the Journey if you want cheap space (I fully understand the Journey’s popularity).
Mitsubishi Mirage, maybe it wasn’t a hit in US but it was in Canada especially when it first was introduced, they’re still one of the most common cars in traffic. Driving one literally makes you look bad and it’s one of the only modern cars you can say that about. The Micra and the Spark are far superior, the Mirage’s only positive is a 10 year warranty. The leases on it are only negligibly cheaper than a real car.
The Kia Soul is popular because it literally has no competition. It’s not a crossover and it’s taller and roomier than a normal hatch.
Tangent time.
1. The sales success of the Soul is logical. Lots of headroom, good visibility, small footprint, well appointed, good reliability scores, long warranty and not expensive. After spending a day driving around downtown Toronto in one, all the females in my family have decreed that they would very much like one.
2. Lots of Nissan hate among the B&B. 2nd only to the anti-VW rhetoric? I too am mistrustful of CVT’s. But a great many manufacturers are now using them and Nissan has the benefit of more experience with this technology. Have a Rogue and am quite happy with it. Seats are very comfortable. A little more space and equipment for a lower price than its competition. Same with the Sentra, which has a higher roofline than most of its competition and therefore feels less cramped.
3. As for sales success that do not deserve it, Escalade. What does it do better than its ‘competition’ or lesser priced GM fullsize SUV’s?
“What does it do better than its ‘competition’ or lesser priced GM fullsize SUV’s?”
Looks cool and standard 6.2L.
Which I believe you can still get in the Chev and GMC versions. Both of which cost less. And at least one looks better, and looks of course are subjective.
Even in regards to the front end of an Alfa Stelvio which has an uncanny resemblance to an Edsel.
Escalades also have terrific interiors.
No way I’d ever buy one, but I see why they’re popular.
Arthur, a word of caution on the Nissan CVT from someone who dumped theirs when it began exhibiting symptoms that accompanied transmission failure among some subset of owners. When we bought a used 2012 Altima in 2013, I too figured that Nissan probably had ironed out the CVT since its introduction to this model in 2007. Backing this up was Consumer Report’s sterling reliability for the Altima in the transmission category for all model years 2007-2012. But that was in 2013.
Earlier this year ours began to whine when climbing grades. Internet searches revealed a lot of complaints about transmission failures associated with this sound. Less than 90K on the clock. Forums are a bit of a self-selecting group, but CR now shows mediocre to poor reliability for 2007-2009 Altimas so it’s showing up there as well. Tellingly, the pre-CVT 2000-2006 Altimas still have very good reliability ratings for the transmission. 2013s aren’t doing well either, which is when they introduced a new unit. It’s similar for the Rogue, and our inlaws had the transmission fail in theirs just shy of the 120K mile mark.
My dealership service advisor didn’t even blink at the symptoms and knew off the top of his head that it was a $4500 job that only came with a 1 year warranty.
I liked our Altima and didn’t pay heed to the stereotypical Nissan blather here regarding that car. That 2007-2012 generation handled well, was quiet on the freeway, and had a better interior in both materials and utilitarian touches than the Honda and Toyota of the time. But that CVT has soured me on the entire brand. I wouldn’t trust it out of warranty, and if it begins making any unusual noises start looking for the door out.
@30Mile: Thanks. Have ours on a 4 year/96,000km (60,000 mile) lease. So hopefully either Nissan has solved the problem, or it will not be my problem.
Other than the Koreans, how many small(er) SUV/CUV’s do not have a CVT?
Actually so far, the family has been so pleased with the Rogue that despite their near unanimous requests for a Soul, I am contemplating a Sentra (lease).
Large on frame SUV, unless you’re towing i just DO NOT GET IT. A minivan does EVERYTHING else better.
Because, you’re still driving a minivan. Ugh.
Even with a gaggle of kids to haul around, I’d still get a Tahoe/Yukon….hands down.
Well…if you want to pay a LOT more than you would for a minivan, and have less room, I suppose a Tahoe would be a great choice.
Personally, I wouldn’t buy an Exxon Valdez-class SUV because I have no need for one, and wouldn’t want to pay tens of thousands of dollars more just to have one. Those aren’t irrational reasons.
You don’t look any cooler, just a bit smaller.
No it does not. At times you go to a place and there’s a stuck van. Or, better yet, the dad knew he can’t make it, so it’s parked where the gravel ends. Family hikes to the camp with all the stuff on them like mules.
I knew two times people bought minivans for a good reason. One had 4 kids, other had 3 and dogs.
“Large on frame SUV, unless you’re towing i just DO NOT GET IT. A minivan does EVERYTHING else better.”
It’s not that tough to get. No one feels good behind the wheel of a minivan. Everyone feels good behind the wheel of a BOF SUV w/V8 under the hood.
In certain areas of Portland I see a SmartCar on every street. And not just from Car2Go. These are cars that someone actually paid money for. From what I can tell a Civic is cheaper and better in every way.
I do not know why the Smart Car exists.
The Smart Car was a splash in the pan around here. All dealerships folded and you don’t see them on the road anymore.
I’m not sure why you see them where you are. Oh wait, Portland? Yep. ;)
I know a guy with a SmartCar. It’s a teeny, tiny, bag of crap, but he seems to like it. He’s also a really weird dude, so there’s that.
That’s a pretty loose definition of popular right there.
That said, while the smart gets great city fuel economy, and is sort of charming in a quirky way (it’s a frenetic, extremely lightweight rear-engined car), but really, it exists for one reason – to be the absolute easiest thing to parallel park. You can squeeze it into spaces that you couldn’t fit a regular subcompact into if you could drag it sideways. If you’re dependent on street parking, and don’t need a back seat, that’s a pretty big asset.
Yes, that’s a very specific set of strengths that appeals to a very small group of buyers, and the smart has sold about as well (poorly?) as it should for such a niche vehicle.
RE: Alfisti’s BOF discussion
My vacations oftentimes constitute going offroad, a van outside of a Sprinter 4×4 is a non-starter. I’m not married to BOF, but the amount of capable-enough non-BOF options is exceedingly slim (read: Grand Cherokee, the long-departed Montero Limited, my old MPV Allsport, R50 Pathfinders)
Since the new Accord is basically a Civic on growth hormones, I did not expect it to sell as well as it has. I guess most buyers are either not as well informed or they don’t really give a crap.
Wow, that was far more ignorant than you assume others to be.
Mercedes GLC (previous generation). For a few years you saw one every couple of blocks. Then in the past year, poof, all gone. I assume they were all returned at the end of their lease and shipped off to Asia or Florida or wherever. I am also assuming their former lessees are driving the hordes of new 4Runners I now see.
I’m going to bring up the dead – Ford panthers. Utterly horrible cars that no one not wearing a uniform and getting paid should ever have drive. The whole genre is extinct with good reason.
People using Full sized trucks as commuter vehicles and rarely anything else…
Nice topic Steph.
Toyota Prius
Well, popularity is subjective, and for something as hideous as the current Prius anything more than 1unit/year means popularity.